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loloynage2
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loloynage2
4,206 posts
Peasant

WAAIT!!!! Calm down and read plz

One day i was thinking: wouldnt be life better without religion?

Why did i think that? There are a lot of reasons:

1.War. Since religion was created, there was wars. One religion again a other, just because they don't agree with each other. Or like WW2, it was for making a religion (christians) to become powerfull and killing other religions (jews). U.S.A think that "god" is on they side and start killing whatever by the name of god. And same thing with the terorists.

2.Stops Science. A lot of famous people like Galileo or Copernic where stoped, cause they didnt have the same point of view then the church. Darwin had a lot of problems, and people didnt believe him, just because it was against religion.

3.Injustice. Womens where lower in society then mens. Mostly in Indu or Muslim, the women couldnt do anything. Had to hide face, couldnt choose who to marry. Also, there wasnt any freedom of speech. If u think differently then the religion, you get killed, tortured or you get send to prison.

So. Here is a question: Wouldnt life be better without religion? Wouldnt we be like 50 years in the futur in science? Wouldnt everyone be happier without a religion? Just living your life normaly....

  • 119 Replies
hojoko
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hojoko
508 posts
Peasant

Okay, I'd just like to point out that I never said thousands of years more advanced. I said a thousand. And that's just crude speculation. Of course, the converse could apply. It might be vaguely possible that in some rare circumstance the powerful religious ideals could have caused great scientific discoveries. As it was mentioned, many scientists made discoveries in hopes of enlightening the world about God. Gregor Mendel, for example, was a priest, and very fond of his religion (or so his great-grandson tells me).

Graham
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Graham
8,051 posts
Nomad

but the opinions are mostly prejudice.

mostly? why not all?

With the current evidence its more likely that we did not evolve from kangaroos


probabilities are based from data, no? facts change with time. saying the current evidence suggests is another expression for an educated guess.

i'm not suggesting there's anything else to base it off of, just i like a more clear-cut version.

so why would I say we did?

why would people believe the earth was round when they were raised with the guess of the earth was flat?


You can never really know.
fourtytwo
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fourtytwo
698 posts
Nomad

loloynage2, you are obviously speaking about religions totally different from Christianity.

I didnt say they wernt christians, i just said that they had ideas against religion.
against the IDEAS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC LEADERS!!! Their IDEAS were created for the sole purpose of getting more money and these CHRISTIAN scientists were taking apart the very ideas they made, causing people to leave the church. That is not religion, that is the misuse of undeserved power.

effects of religion in to it
so...you are saying Adolf Hitler did Christians a favor? Christians, by the way, are not trying to destroy people, especially not the very group the center of Christian belief was born out of.

Wow all the theories based on religion where false (well most of them)
care to explain this one? I'd like some sound proof against Christianity in this area.

No, not at all. Instead of saying for tousands of years "God created this or that!", people could of find ways to expain it, find new ways and discover other stuff.
As I said, that is quite an un-Biblical perspective on life. "Fill the earth and subdue it" was a very specific command. We are to populate the earth, discover how to use the resources here, and take care of it. Yes, God created things, but how do the things work? What are the things like? Galileo and the other Christian scientists did just that.

People try to not do that, not eat that, must do that.
And they are right. Physically, all the "must nots" are quite bad for your body, so you shouldn't be doing that anyways. (Of course, you are talking about other religions too, but that is beyond the point)

So they could go to "heaven"
This is what I meant when I said you aren't talking about Christianity, but about every other religion on earth. In Christianity, you go to heaven "not by works, but by faith..." The reason to "be good" is because you want to be. Tough concept, so I won't go into it.

If people could live open minded and free, without any of those rules, i think world would be better
If only they could... o.0 So...you believe drinking, smoking, raping, killing, stealing, etc. are all fine? The rules of religion are on all those things and you think the rules are bad? Gosh...you really need to re-think you life.

and suppressing anything they deemed to be heresy causing that era to last far longer.
Monasteries did that? I thought those were secluded places o.0
Graham
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Graham
8,051 posts
Nomad

doubling a dollar for 10 days and then waiting around 5 days to change again.

2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, (5 days), 2048
woulda been at 32768 with 5 days more


lil' graph
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p109/Arthur_Vandelay99/DarkAges.gif

[[[[[[due to corrupt leaders!]]]]]]

loloynage2
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loloynage2
4,206 posts
Peasant

against the IDEAS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC LEADERS!!! Their IDEAS were created for the sole purpose of getting more money and these CHRISTIAN scientists were taking apart the very ideas they made, causing people to leave the church. That is not religion, that is the misuse of undeserved power.


I not sure about that, but i know they used "religion" and "god" as reason.

loloynage2, you are obviously speaking about religions totally different from Christianity.


obviously yes. But religion have mostly a lot of stuff in common, so its general.

care to explain this one? I'd like some sound proof against Christianity in this area.


Sure. The earth is flat, the earth is the center of the univers, earth was created in 7 days, living things didnt evolute.

And they are right. Physically, all the "must nots" are quite bad for your body, so you shouldn't be doing that anyways. (Of course, you are talking about other religions too, but that is beyond the point)


I would guess u are christian? But on that point i wasnt really pointing on christians and more on muslims.

If only they could... o.0 So...you believe drinking, smoking, raping, killing, stealing, etc. are all fine? The rules of religion are on all those things and you think the rules are bad? Gosh...you really need to re-think you life.


lol? we are smart enough to not do that without religion. And remember a lot of wars (aka killing) where from conflics by religion. And u are right. We should kill a lot of animals for god, we should put nails on our hands and feets for Jesus, oh yea, and lets not forget to kill everyone that was against it. Seriously? Humans don't turn to super-nice people if they have a religion
fourtytwo
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fourtytwo
698 posts
Nomad

I not sure about that, but i know they used "religion" and "god" as reason.
As you refuse to get the point or your lack of knowledge of English grammar prevent you from grasping my point, I guess I'll have to drop this argument. For those who can and will listen, the key word in loloynage2's sentence is "they." The leaders used religion as their reason to bother people just as anyone can use "the sun is bright" as a reason to create a whole set of obnoxious ideas and force people to "believe" them. (not saying anyone has)

obviously yes. But religion have mostly a lot of stuff in common, so its general.
And some of the specific things you speak of don't relate to Christianity

Sure. The earth is flat, the earth is the center of the univers, earth was created in 7 days, living things didnt evolute.
Bible didn't say the earth is flat or that it is the center of the universe. The other two are debatable and are for discussion in a different topic. I will ask one thing of you, though: Give me solid proof that the earth was not created in seven days and that creatures did evolute. (Note: there have been a few threads nearly 100 pages long about this and they didn't prove anything...nobody could get anywhere in either direction.)

lol? we are smart enough to not do that without religion
some of us...but the rest think all of that is "fun"

And remember a lot of wars (aka killing) where from conflicts by religion.
and from the lack of it. Removing religion will not prevent or lessen war. The two world wars we just came out of were the biggest wars in the history of the world...and they were not caused by religion...especially not by Christianity.

We should kill a lot of animals for God, we should put nails on our hands and feets for Jesus, oh yea, and lets not forget to kill everyone that was against it.
Killing animals is still around, btw...McDonalds has been doing plenty of that. I don't recall seeing anyone with nails on their hands and feet...where did you get that idea? (some non-Christian belief perhaps?) Killing people against Christianity also happens to be something corrupt leaders brought together. The teaching of the Roman Catholic leaders at the time of the crusades was to stop the spread of any other beliefs no matter what it takes...and killing was apparently what they thought easiest.

Humans don't turn to super-nice people if they have a religion
I agree...Muslims aren't too nice o.0 To be a Christian actually involves becoming "nice." You can't just say "I believe in Jesus" and be bad...if you do, you apparently didn't mean what you said. It bothers me how so many people do that and end up scarring the face of religion. People "without religion" aren't so nice either...especially since they don't think they have to be nice in the first place
chitown
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chitown
1,614 posts
Farmer

yea i guess life would be better without religion
i dont really go to church anyways and i guess there might be less wars

waterfish333
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waterfish333
52 posts
Nomad

I would like to respond to the OP in three sections as his argument is in three sections.

1. Wars would still occur because, despite what motives are told to us through history or government, political power (the ability to control people) tends to be what drives wars and the manipulation of the general population tends to be most effective through the use of religious arguments (punishment from a god or God tends to be a more persuasive argument than punishment from man). At it's root, however, war tends to be about power and without religion, another motivational tool would be used in it's place.

2. I can't truly argue with that in the historical context but I don't think that religion innately impedes scientific research and advancement. Religion, when combined with individuals who wield large amounts of political power tend to use religion to stifle science because if science were to contradict the stiff religious beliefs and be convincing about it, the religious leaders would quickly lose their supernatural authority. Religion and science don't need to mix today but they often do anyway, but I don't consider religion itself to be the culprit, just people who don't want other people to think differently from themselves.

3. Humans will always create hierarchies and caste systems. If you need an example look no further than a public middle or high school. Students are separated and everyone tends to know the structure. In most schools, the athletes are on the top along with the cheerleaders and the geeks/nerds tend to be on the bottom, although that is not always true. Still, the fact remains humans are both social and hierarchical creatures and that cannot be attributed to religion, just human nature.

fourtytwo
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fourtytwo
698 posts
Nomad

Jesus had nails in his hands and feet as a punishment etc. etc. And that's not too horrible you know, at that time outlaws were treated worse than that in some situations. Of course, if Jesus even existed all.
notice the quote from loloynage2 in my post, though...
...we should put nails on our hands and feets for Jesus...
As I said, I don't think anybody has said to do that...
WexMajor82
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WexMajor82
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Nomad

Sure. The earth is flat, the earth is the center of the univers, earth was created in 7 days, living things didnt evolute.

Bible didn't say the earth is flat or that it is the center of the universe.

And people were torched for having said otherwise nonetheless by the christian church.
cambria
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cambria
40 posts
Nomad

I think it would, because a bunch of wars where started because of dumb things like, Hitler, from WW2, didn't like Jewish people so he tried to kill them and put them in concentration camps. Now girls in middle east can't go to school because of there religion.
That's my reason for saying life would be better if without religion.

waterfish333
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waterfish333
52 posts
Nomad

And people were torched for having said otherwise nonetheless by the christian church.


That's not religion's fault. People who can't accept alternative viewpoints are unfortunately the stereotype for the "religious person." I know it's hard sometimes but you must separate the principle of religion from those who are Machiavellian in their approach to religion.
loloynage2
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loloynage2
4,206 posts
Peasant

wow > somehow my post didnt work

Drakedurbin
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Drakedurbin
200 posts
Nomad

I believe the world is better with religion. Mostly because that religion isn't just if you believe in God or not and so on and so forth, but all of your beliefs. If there was no religion, then none of us would be any different than the next person (except by looks) and science would have been totally screwed by the time of the cavemen becuase the people had to believe that they could for a rotating block, or create fire with 2 sticks.

fourtytwo
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fourtytwo
698 posts
Nomad

And people were torched for having said otherwise nonetheless by the christian church.
I'm not going to post my reply to every single post with this same message...go back to page four to read about some corrupt leaders...

I think it would, because a bunch of wars where started because of dumb things like, Hitler, from WW2, didn't like Jewish people so he tried to kill them and put them in concentration camps.
Reading this, it seems the problem is the people without religion. Hitler, an atheist/agnostic, decided he didn't like Jewish people and killed them. A little while ago (and possibly still...), Christianity was forbidden in Russian schools because Christians are hated. In Romania, you can be killed for being Christian. All that is the work of Atheists, and for what? To rid the world of these "hateful" religious people? Seems contradictory to me... Even in the USA, Christianity is forbidden to be taught in some schools. Atheism may have been around for a while, but a lot of the religious problems only started when it became widespread. I realize other religions have been fighting, but in case you didn't notice my point, Atheism isn't and will never fix it.
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