The CRISTIAN SITUATION is what i would call the revealing of how strong of a Christan you are. The question here is directed towards Christians, but can apply to all religions. There have been instances where a person held a gun to anther's head and told them to say that they didn't believe in GOD. This person was a Christan and refused to and was killed, was this faithfulness, stupidity, suicide, what do you think of this situation, and how would you react?
@Armed Blade: If you want, I can research farther. I'll do some digging. I'm not sure what you call the 'commandments' in the Koran, so I just said law.
"I know in Christianity -- because Jesus died for your sins -- you don't have to follow Moses's law or something?"
Yes, and no. When Jesus died, instead of being under the Moses's law, we we're under 'Grace', so instead of not killing someone, you should take it a step farther and go as far as not hating them. Just as takeing cheating on your wife, you shouldn't lust. Kinda like that.
@Armed Blade: If you want, I can research farther. I'll do some digging. I'm not sure what you call the 'commandments' in the Koran, so I just said law.
It isn't a commandment OR a Law. Please pull up a regular link, too. Pulling some anti-Islamic up link won't help the argument, but no where have I heard that killing non-Muslims is a rule in Islam.
I have no qualms posting the myriad of verses that says to kill and toruture and persecute people like myself.
Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98
On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161
Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191
Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39
Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216 (different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.
..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43
If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8
You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71
Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74
Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76
But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89
Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14
Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39
O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65
It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67
Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5
Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28
Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.
Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41
O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73
Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111
Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation: Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....
As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15
Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60
Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14
When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4 (different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5
Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25
Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29
Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54
Wow, So you found some Qur'an verses, probably on a site like this and posted them on here. Now, let's think about this. Either you've managed to either disprove or completely bore some 14 year old, which isn't really that much to be proud of. Or you just failed to read Armed_Blade's post which directly says translations like this simply don't work. I just can't see what makes you so happy with yourself that you feel the need to clutter up the WEPR forum with a pat on your own back.
So no, they were not drunk catholic farmers. They were feudal kings, knights, and nobles. Pretty much the entire upper class that had been founding the social way Christianity runs in Europe in post-feudal times.
I think you're understating the influence of the general structure of Feudal society. The reason Christians didn't conquer massive swathes of land was because their power was derived from God. Most of the main wars during the Middle Ages between Christians were fought on a Christian pretence. The Normans who'd recently migrated to Northen France brought their lust for plunder and expansion witht hem. After 1066 they became the dominant force and had the ear of the Pope. The holy land was seen as a prime target, because Christian nobles could acquire land without undermining their own claim to power.
Personally Christianity and all religion in general is idiotic and useless and that Christians need to get over themselves.
Don't go waving around insulting, baseless assertions under the pretence of rationality. It gives the rest of us heathens a bad name.
Personally Christianity and all religion in general is idiotic and useless and that Christians need to get over themselves.
Wow everybody we have an atheist, this isn't a question about how atheist you are our your beliefs it is a situation where people's faith is tested but apparently you didn't understand the question.
The dude is delusional. He probably wanted a shortcut to heaven (yeah right). What kind of God would demand faith so that people risk their lives to prove their "worthyness", or gullibility?
he doesn't demand anything along these lines, it is a way to prove your faith, and some people would love to be in this situation to prove they where faithful and get a "shortcut" to heaven. I'm extremely christian and i would lie, but then risk my life by tackling the gun man and trying to disarm him, or tell him a lie and distract him and attack him. I might get shot but at least i can save others, that to me is what is important.
