Satan - Armor Games Community

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Nurvana

2,520 posts

Farmer

Posted June 15, '10 1:19pm UTC

And the saddest thing of all of this is that you guys are wasting your childhood trying to do something that is impossible to do: Disprove God. You guys know it's true, yet here you are wasting time. Me? Hell these are free forum posts. And hey that might be why everyone else is here. But soon this may be quoted and yelled at, but hey try to disprove God. You can't. As for atheism? How did the earth start? Bring 1000 non believers into a room and they would strangle each other over the answer. Something or other about "singularity". Half right there. I'm really bored so I'm just rambling, but yeah free posts and a good laugh every day. Hurray.

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Nurvana

2,520 posts

Farmer

Posted June 15, '10 1:26pm UTC

In one word, Goumas: Jealousy.

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Avorne

3,085 posts

Nomad

Posted June 15, '10 1:31pm UTC

Lets see....

He killed Lot's wife for looking back

Onan for 'spilling his seed' (If you know what I mean)

All the Egyption first born children

Some people who complained about the food

A man who picked up sticks on Shabbat

Samson+God kill a lot of people

Saul kills all the Amalekites.

Making a wall fall on Syrian soldiers

The children who made fun of Elisha's Bald head (God sent Bears to kill them)

The ethiopeans

Saul

That's all for now, there is probably more but they're all I could find with a quick look through my bible.

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NoNameC68

5,043 posts

Shepherd

Posted June 15, '10 1:42pm UTC

And the saddest thing of all of this is that you guys are wasting your childhood trying to do something that is impossible to do: Disproving that I can transform into a dinosaur. You guys know it's true, yet here you are wasting time. Me? Hell these are free forum posts. And hey that might be why everyone else is here. But soon this may be quoted and yelled at, but hey try to disprove that I can transform into a dinosaur. You can't. As for atheism? How did dinosaurs exist in the first place? Bring 1000 non believers into a room and they would strangle each other over the answer. Something or other about "singularity". Half right there. I'm really bored so I'm just rambling, but yeah free posts and a good laugh every day. Hurray.

BTW, I powerspawned all dinosaurs through my nose. You are stupid to believe otherwise because you can't prove it didn't happen. Sure, you have lack of evidence, but everyone knows lack of evidence can't be used as evidence in itself to disprove something! Also, I used my awesome powers to kill Abe Lincoln. You can't disprove that I killed him using historical texts, because the historical texts are all wrong... all of them. Prove that I didn't kill Lincoln. Scientists and their notes on his body also don't count, because scientists don't have the common sense to understand creationism, so you know you can't trust them with anything else.

If you want to know what YOU sound like to an atheist, that's what you sound like.

And the saddest thing of all of this is that you guys are wasting your childhood trying to do something that is impossible to do: Disproving [b]that I can transform into a dinosaur[/b]. You guys know it's true, yet here you are wasting time. Me? Hell these are free forum posts. And hey that might be why everyone else is here. But soon this may be quoted and yelled at, but hey try to disprove [b]that I can transform into a dinosaur[/b]. You can't. As for atheism? How did [b]dinosaurs exist in the first place[/b]? Bring 1000 non believers into a room and they would strangle each other over the answer. Something or other about "singularity". Half right there. I'm really bored so I'm just rambling, but yeah free posts and a good laugh every day. Hurray.\r\n\r\nBTW, I powerspawned all dinosaurs through my nose. You are stupid to believe otherwise because you can't prove it didn't happen. Sure, you have lack of evidence, but everyone knows lack of evidence can't be used as evidence in itself to disprove something! Also, I used my awesome powers to kill Abe Lincoln. You can't disprove that I killed him using historical texts, because the historical texts are all wrong... all of them. Prove that I didn't kill Lincoln. Scientists and their notes on his body also don't count, because scientists don't have the common sense to understand creationism, so you know you can't trust them with anything else.\r\n\r\n[b]If you want to know what YOU sound like to an atheist, that's what you sound like.[/b]

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314d1

3,817 posts

Nomad

Posted June 15, '10 3:00pm UTC

Oh yes why else were they killed?

For someone else doing something god does not like, for doing something that they think is fine but god does not like it (EX burning incense, complaining about food and being dragged threw the desert, giving a true scout report), being suspected as being a witch, being homosexual; a faithless; or king that god does not like, etc.

Yes they were all killing each other so...

So you are saying they should all die instead of going to a cosmic jail? Do I even have to state what is wrong with that?

There are most certainly differently different kinds of jealous. AS in God is jealous of our love, while the devil is jealous of God's power. Satan wasn't saving anyone. Who did he save?

If Satan won the revolution, then he would could easily have saved TRILLIONS by not killing them as god had, TRILLIONS more if he destroyed hell, and finally THE ENTIRE EARTH by stopping rapture.

Choose your own path: Just be nice and get everlasting life, or turn against him so he has no choice but to punish you. Just don't murder, steal, commit adultery, etc. It's not that hard to get into heaven and that's how God wants it.

Not so. It is nigh impossible for non-Christians to get in. If someone else commits one sin, one lie, one moment of lust, one second of work on Sabbath day, then they will go to hell as they won't repent.

You see though young one that an all powerful being makes all that possible. So if you don't believe in an all powerful God, then that is the only illogical part of the BIble. So thanks for wasting time.

Yes. Of course. There is nothing impossible about cockatrice, dragons, wizards, and everything else that we do not see in the modern world but were abundant in the Bible.

None of that makes any sense, but: An all loving God says, just be nice and you'll go to heaven. A guy murders and rapes his whole life and goes to hell. Who's fault is it?

A guy lies once to defend a ton of people, does not repent, and goes to hell. Who's fault is that?

A guy kills one man to save a lot of people, does not repent, and goes to hell. Who's fault is that?

A guy collects would on Sabbath day, does not have a chance to repent because they stoned him to death. He goes to hell. Who's fault is that?

Why put them in jail when they were going to die anyway and go to hell?

So they have a chance to live, restructure there lives, and so on. According to you we should hang people for shoplifting. Don't you think that is a little extremist?

Well he is so you can either stop dragging it out or embarrass yourself by trying to find otherwise.

You can try to prove it so, as it is not so. I can't prove that something is not there, and I am already trying on one thing. Maybe once people stop believing this god fella I will find you non-existent verse.

God has never done something wrong. Name one instance he has, and we, to our faith, will refute it. That you don't agree is not our fault. I find it hilarious that you are critiquing someone who you say you don't even think exists.

Human kills: Bad
God kills: Good
Human rapes: Bad
God rapes: Good
Human is jealous= Bad
God is jealous= Good

According to you whatever God does is right, even if a human does it it is wrong. Using that failed logic, then it is impossible for him to do something wrong. Using correct logic, then he is a tyrant.

And the saddest thing of all of this is that you guys are wasting your childhood trying to do something that is impossible to do: Disprove God. You guys know it's true, yet here you are wasting time. Me? Hell these are free forum posts. And hey that might be why everyone else is here. But soon this may be quoted and yelled at, but hey try to disprove God. You can't. As for atheism? How did the earth start? Bring 1000 non believers into a room and they would strangle each other over the answer. Something or other about "singularity". Half right there. I'm really bored so I'm just rambling, but yeah free posts and a good laugh every day. Hurray.

NoName got that fine, as it was just rambling and no real argument...

[quote]Oh yes why else were they killed? [/quote]\r\n\r\nFor someone else doing something god does not like, for doing something that they think is fine but god does not like it (EX burning incense, complaining about food and being dragged threw the desert, giving a true scout report), being suspected as being a witch, being homosexual; a faithless; or king that god does not like, etc. \r\n\r\n\r\n[quote]Yes they were all killing each other so... [/quote]\r\n\r\nSo you are saying they should all die instead of going to a cosmic jail? Do I even have to state what is wrong with that? \r\n\r\n[quote]There are most certainly differently different kinds of jealous. AS in God is jealous of our love, while the devil is jealous of God's power. Satan wasn't saving anyone. Who did he save? [/quote]\r\n\r\nIf Satan won the revolution, then he would could easily have saved TRILLIONS by not killing them as god had, TRILLIONS more if he destroyed hell, and finally THE ENTIRE EARTH by stopping rapture. \r\n\r\n[quote]Choose your own path: Just be nice and get everlasting life, or turn against him so he has no choice but to punish you. Just don't murder, steal, commit adultery, etc. It's not that hard to get into heaven and that's how God wants it. [/quote]\r\n\r\nNot so. It is nigh impossible for non-Christians to get in. If someone else commits one sin, one lie, one moment of lust, one second of work on Sabbath day, then they will go to hell as they won't repent. \r\n\r\n[quote]You see though young one that an all powerful being makes all that possible. So if you don't believe in an all powerful God, then that is the only illogical part of the BIble. So thanks for wasting time. [/quote]\r\n\r\nYes. Of course. There is nothing impossible about [b]cockatrice[/b], [b]dragons[/b], [b]wizards[/b], and everything else that we do not see in the modern world but were abundant in the Bible. \r\n\r\n[quote]None of that makes any sense, but: An all loving God says, just be nice and you'll go to heaven. A guy murders and rapes his whole life and goes to hell. Who's fault is it? [/quote]\r\n\r\nA guy lies once to defend a ton of people, does not repent, and goes to hell. Who's fault is that?\r\n\r\nA guy kills one man to save a lot of people, does not repent, and goes to hell. Who's fault is that? \r\n\r\nA guy collects would on Sabbath day, does not have a chance to repent because they stoned him to death. He goes to hell. Who's fault is that?\r\n\r\n[quote]Why put them in jail when they were going to die anyway and go to hell? [/quote]\r\n\r\nSo they have a chance to live, restructure there lives, and so on. According to you we should hang people for shoplifting. Don't you think that is a little extremist? \r\n\r\n[quote]Well he is so you can either stop dragging it out or embarrass yourself by trying to find otherwise. [/quote]\r\n\r\nYou can try to prove it so, as it is not so. I can't prove that something is not there, and I am already trying on one thing. Maybe once people stop believing this god fella I will find you non-existent verse. \r\n\r\n[quote]God has never done something wrong. Name one instance he has, and we, to our faith, will refute it. That you don't agree is not our fault. I find it hilarious that you are critiquing someone who you say you don't even think exists.[/quote]\r\n\r\nHuman kills: Bad\r\nGod kills: Good\r\nHuman rapes: Bad\r\nGod rapes: Good\r\nHuman is jealous= Bad\r\nGod is jealous= Good\r\n\r\nAccording to you whatever God does is right, even if a human does it it is wrong. Using that failed logic, then it is impossible for him to do something wrong. Using correct logic, then he is a tyrant. \r\n\r\n[quote]And the saddest thing of all of this is that you guys are wasting your childhood trying to do something that is impossible to do: Disprove God. You guys know it's true, yet here you are wasting time. Me? Hell these are free forum posts. And hey that might be why everyone else is here. But soon this may be quoted and yelled at, but hey try to disprove God. You can't. As for atheism? How did the earth start? Bring 1000 non believers into a room and they would strangle each other over the answer. Something or other about "singularity". Half right there. I'm really bored so I'm just rambling, but yeah free posts and a good laugh every day. Hurray.[/quote]\r\n\r\nNoName got that fine, as it was just rambling and no real argument...

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Avorne

3,085 posts

Nomad

Posted June 15, '10 8:08pm UTC

How is it not logical for him not to exist?

As far as I can see it's more logical than him existing.

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Gradient

36 posts

Nomad

Posted June 15, '10 8:30pm UTC

Satan rebelled only by THOUGHT against God, saying something like "What if..." in his mind.

And he encouraged people to sin not to harm said people, but simply because he hates God and wants to make him angry.

Thus, making the Bible the first manga ever written.

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wajor59

909 posts

Nomad

Posted June 15, '10 9:12pm UTC

Isaiah 45:7,(NIV) says
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:9,(NIV) says
Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, "What are you making?" Does your work say, "He has no hands?"

Isaiah 45:10,(NIV) says
Woe to him who says to his father, "What have you begotten?" or to his mother, "What have you brought to birth?"

Isaiah 45:11,(NIV) says
"This is what the LORD says
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the works of my hands?

Isaiah 45:12,(NIV) says
It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it.
My own hands stretched out the heavens;
I marshaled their starry hosts.

Now, what do scientist say, again about the Big Bang? That matter expanded? Hum, you see, I don't have a problem agreeing with scientists that hold to this theory.

Now, back to the OP, satan, was a fallen archangel of GOD, who considered himself to be more powerful than GOD. Satan and his demons, were cast out of heaven and he rules the earth for a limited time only. This same limited time is the time we're living in. Satan, with GOD's permission is allowed to "test" believers and some are tested more than others. The ones who are tested greatest and still Love the LORD, their GOD receive the greatest rewards,(crowns), in heaven. Believers don't receive their rewards on earth while they live because any reward on earth, stays on earth. There aren't any moving vans, Brinks trucks going to heaven.

Now, concerning GOD sending the "angel of death" to Egypt to kill all firstborn, or one way to say this is the second generation after Pharaoh, was a warning that Pharaoh ignored.

The bible says in Exodus 3:7 (...from the burning bush),GOD says to Moses, "I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering.
3:8 So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey
the home of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites Perizzites, Hivites,
and Jebusites.
3:9 And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them.
3:10 So now, go. I am sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people the Israelites out of Egypt.

So, you say GOD isn't just, patient, loving, omnipotent, omnipresent or omniscient?

God sends Moses time after time to ask Pharaoh to free the Israelites so they can go out to the desert for three days and worship their GOD until chapter 6 of Exodus.
Then the plagues start in chapter 7 and the firstborn of all people and cattle of Egypt are killed in chapters 11:1-12:33. The Israelites left Egypt at the end of 430 years of captivity, to the day.

Isaiah 45:7,(NIV) says\r\nI form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.\r\n\r\nIsaiah 45:9,(NIV) says\r\nWoe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground.  Does the clay say to the potter, "What are you making?"  Does your work say, "He has no hands?"\r\n\r\nIsaiah 45:10,(NIV) says\r\nWoe to him who says to his father, "What have you begotten?" or to his mother, "What have you brought to birth?"\r\n\r\nIsaiah 45:11,(NIV) says\r\n"This is what the LORD says\r\nthe Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: \r\nConcerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the works of my hands?\r\n\r\nIsaiah 45:12,(NIV) says\r\nIt is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it.\r\nMy own hands stretched out the heavens;\r\nI marshaled their starry hosts.\r\n\r\nNow, what do scientist say, again about the Big Bang?  That matter expanded? Hum, you see, I don't have a problem agreeing with scientists that hold to this theory.\r\n\r\n[b]Now, back to the OP[/b], satan, was a fallen archangel of GOD, who considered himself to be more powerful than GOD.  Satan and his demons, were cast out of heaven and he rules the earth for a limited time only.  This same limited time is the time we're living in.  Satan, with GOD's permission is allowed to "test" believers and some are tested more than others.  The ones who are tested greatest and still Love the LORD, their GOD receive the greatest rewards,(crowns), in heaven.  Believers don't receive their rewards on earth while they live because any reward on earth, stays on earth.  There aren't any moving vans, Brinks trucks going to heaven.\r\n\r\nNow, concerning GOD sending the "angel of death" to Egypt to kill all firstborn, or one way to say this is the second generation after Pharaoh, [i][b]was a warning that Pharaoh ignored[/b][/i].  \r\n\r\nThe bible says in Exodus 3:7 (...from the burning bush),GOD says to Moses, "I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt.  I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering.\r\n3:8  So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey \r\nthe home of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites Perizzites, Hivites,\r\nand Jebusites.\r\n3:9  And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them.\r\n3:10  So now, go.  I am sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people the Israelites out of Egypt.\r\n\r\nSo, you say GOD isn't just, patient, loving, omnipotent, omnipresent or omniscient?\r\n\r\nGod sends Moses time after time to ask Pharaoh to free the Israelites so they can go out to the desert for three days and worship their GOD until chapter 6 of Exodus. \r\nThen the plagues start in chapter 7 and the firstborn of all people and cattle of Egypt are killed in chapters 11:1-12:33. The Israelites left Egypt at the end of 430 years of captivity, to the day.

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted June 15, '10 9:21pm UTC

None of that makes any sense, but: An all loving God says, just be nice and you'll go to heaven. A guy murders and rapes his whole life and goes to hell. Who's fault is it?

But that's not all this "all loving God" says now is it? If you don't follow in line God punishes and the punishment is your fault. Just as it's the women's fault for walking down the ally and not the rapists. She chose to walk down the ally on her own free will so it was her fault.

Or perhaps the battered wife scenario.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXgnpuKoWhU
But of course it won't make sense to you because you are unable to place the blame where it belongs.

Well he is so you can either stop dragging it out or embarrass yourself by trying to find otherwise.

Well he is so that's that?... guess I can't argue with that logic... wow you really have me beat... what's next are yo going to tell me that your rubber and I'm glue?

God has never done something wrong. Name one instance he has, and we, to our faith, will refute it. That you don't agree is not our fault. I find it hilarious that you are critiquing someone who you say you don't even think exists.

demanding both animal and human sacrifices
mass murder
genocide (a number of times)
child murderer
could likely get him on animal abuse

It's not that you will refute it, it's that you'll make excuses for it.

You know what the fun thing is NoName? I can totally change that paragraph to my liking as well.

You know what's funny? I think you missed the point of that post.

"If you want to know what YOU sound like to an atheist, that's what you sound like. "

[quote]None of that makes any sense, but: An all loving God says, just be nice and you'll go to heaven. A guy murders and rapes his whole life and goes to hell. Who's fault is it?[/quote]\r\n\r\nBut that's not all this "all loving God" says now is it? If you don't follow in line God punishes and the punishment is your fault. Just as it's the women's fault for walking down the ally and not the rapists. She chose to walk down the ally on her own free will so it was her fault.\r\n\r\nOr perhaps the battered wife scenario.\r\n[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXgnpuKoWhU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXgnpuKoWhU[/url]\r\nBut of course it won't make sense to you  because you are unable to place the blame where it belongs.\r\n\r\n[quote]Well he is so you can either stop dragging it out or embarrass yourself by trying to find otherwise.[/quote]\r\n\r\nWell he is so that's that?... guess I can't argue with that logic... wow you really have me beat... what's next are yo going to tell me that your rubber and I'm glue?\r\n\r\n[quote]God has never done something wrong. Name one instance he has, and we, to our faith, will refute it. That you don't agree is not our fault. I find it hilarious that you are critiquing someone who you say you don't even think exists.[/quote]\r\n\r\ndemanding both animal and human sacrifices\r\nmass murder\r\ngenocide (a number of times)\r\nchild murderer\r\ncould likely get him on animal abuse\r\n\r\nIt's not that you will refute it, it's that you'll make excuses for it.\r\n\r\n[quote]You know what the fun thing is NoName? I can totally change that paragraph to my liking as well. [/quote]\r\n\r\nYou know what's funny? I think you missed the point of that post.\r\n\r\n"[i]If you want to know what YOU sound like to an atheist, that's what you sound like. [/i]"

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dacer

2,820 posts

Nomad

Posted June 15, '10 9:23pm UTC

Discussions on religion that involve debate, are pathetic.

if you try to debate about the devil existing, your retarded.

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314d1

3,817 posts

Nomad

Posted June 15, '10 9:24pm UTC

Now, back to the OP, satan, was a fallen archangel of GOD, who considered himself to be more powerful than GOD. Satan and his demons, were cast out of heaven and he rules the earth for a limited time only. This same limited time is the time we're living in. Satan, with GOD's permission is allowed to "test" believers and some are tested more than others. The ones who are tested greatest and still Love the LORD, their GOD receive the greatest rewards,(crowns), in heaven. Believers don't receive their rewards on earth while they live because any reward on earth, stays on earth. There aren't any moving vans, Brinks trucks going to heaven.

Last I checked, we were not living under Satan and the only person he tested was Job. And an omnipotent god could not just move your rewards? And if he was given god's permission, then why is he considered evil?

Now, concerning GOD sending the "angel of death" to Egypt to kill all firstborn, or one way to say this is the second generation after Pharaoh, was a warning that Pharaoh ignored.

So you are saying that it is OK to murder innocents as long as it is for a warning? The first borns had done nothing wrong. They were only children of the people who pissed god off. He killed innocents EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW IT WOULD EFFECT NOTHING! If he was omniscient, he would have known that killing all the first borns would be pointless, yet he still did it...

A movie that kind of goes along with the topic.

So, you say GOD isn't just, patient, loving, omnipotent, omnipresent or omniscient?

He is not. In fact, Pharaoh would have let them go but god "hardened his heart" making it so he didn't. How is that all loving and patient?

God sends Moses time after time to ask Pharaoh to free the Israelites so they can go out to the desert for three days and worship their GOD until chapter 6 of Exodus.
Then the plagues start in chapter 7 and the firstborn of all people and cattle of Egypt are killed in chapters 11:1-12:33. The Israelites left Egypt at the end of 430 years of captivity, to the day.

They were there in the first place BECAUSE OF GOD sending a famine. It is just a chain of cruelty that ended with god's favorites being a little bit happier, costing many innocent lives, not only of the children and cattle but of the soldiers killed in the see and the thousands who died in the plagues.

[quote]Now, back to the OP, satan, was a fallen archangel of GOD, who considered himself to be more powerful than GOD.  Satan and his demons, were cast out of heaven and he rules the earth for a limited time only.  This same limited time is the time we're living in.  Satan, with GOD's permission is allowed to "test" believers and some are tested more than others.  The ones who are tested greatest and still Love the LORD, their GOD receive the greatest rewards,(crowns), in heaven.  Believers don't receive their rewards on earth while they live because any reward on earth, stays on earth.  There aren't any moving vans, Brinks trucks going to heaven.[/quote]\r\n\r\nLast I checked, we were not living under Satan and the only person he tested was Job. And an omnipotent god could not just move your rewards? And if he was given god's permission, then why is he considered evil? \r\n\r\n[quote]Now, concerning GOD sending the "angel of death" to Egypt to kill all firstborn, or one way to say this is the second generation after Pharaoh, was a warning that Pharaoh ignored.  [/quote]\r\n\r\nSo you are saying that it is OK to murder innocents as long as it is for a warning? The first borns had done nothing wrong. They were only children of the people who pissed god off. He killed innocents EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW IT WOULD EFFECT NOTHING! If he was omniscient, he would have known that killing all the first borns would be pointless, yet he still did it...\r\n\r\nA [url=http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/search?q=god+on+trial]movie[/url] that kind of goes along with the topic. \r\n\r\n[quote]So, you say GOD isn't just, patient, loving, omnipotent, omnipresent or omniscient?[/quote]\r\n\r\nHe is not. In fact, Pharaoh would have let them go but god "hardened his heart" making it so he didn't. How is that all loving and patient? \r\n\r\n[quote]God sends Moses time after time to ask Pharaoh to free the Israelites so they can go out to the desert for three days and worship their GOD until chapter 6 of Exodus.\r\nThen the plagues start in chapter 7 and the firstborn of all people and cattle of Egypt are killed in chapters 11:1-12:33. The Israelites left Egypt at the end of 430 years of captivity, to the day.[/quote]\r\n\r\nThey were there in the first place BECAUSE OF GOD sending a famine. It is just a chain of cruelty that ended with god's favorites being a little bit happier, costing many innocent lives, not only of the children and cattle but of the soldiers killed in the see and the thousands who died in the plagues.

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted June 15, '10 9:31pm UTC

Now, concerning GOD sending the "angel of death" to Egypt to kill all firstborn, or one way to say this is the second generation after Pharaoh, was a warning that Pharaoh ignored.

Oh well that makes it the Pharaohs fault for God killing because you know an omnipotent being had no other choice but to kill in order to free some slaves from a mortal ruler. It's not like God could have found a non violent means of freeing everyone with his omnipotence.

So, you say GOD isn't just, patient, loving, omnipotent, omnipresent or omniscient?

As I was sarcastically getting at above using threats and death is in direct conflict with being these things.

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wajor59

909 posts

Nomad

Posted June 15, '10 11:21pm UTC

Last I checked, we were not living under Satan and the only person he tested was Job. And an omnipotent god could not just move your rewards? And if he was given god's permission, then why is he considered evil?

Good questions, finally 314d1, I consider these to be legitimate questions and not plain arguments, it'll be a pleasure to answer them, as best I can.

Paul, Jesus, James, and others in the New Testament warn of satans cunning in luring the hearts and minds of believers by causing us to:
* doubt the existence of GOD, Jesus and the Holy Spirit
* doubt our salvation/redemption,(I get to redemption a little later)
* lose faith in the authority of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit
and in many other, subtle ways, slowly over a period of time.

The streets will be paved with purist gold, the walls of heaven will be layered with precious gems and the gates will be of solid pearl. Our rewards, money, jewelry, stuff is all going to rot, rust and be stolen away when our earthly bodies "give up the ghost". We won't need that stuff/junk any more, we won't even miss it.
Job's story tells us that God doesn't need a reason to send satan to test us and to know God is much more important than to know all of the answers to our questions. This may seem as if I'm avoiding the question but the main goal is to know and trust God no matter what happens to us, our family, our possessions.

Satan is considered evil because he thinks he is smarter, better looking, and more powerful than the one who created him. That's the lesson we get from the potsherd story.

So you are saying that it is OK to murder innocents as long as it is for a warning? The first borns had done nothing wrong. They were only children of the people who pissed god off. He killed innocents EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW IT WOULD EFFECT NOTHING! If he was omniscient, he would have known that killing all the first borns would be pointless, yet he still did it...

The problem everyone has with these questions is that we place GOD on a human level, he is spirit. He sent his son, in the form of a human to redeem Gods chosen children both Jew and Greek.
What's the big deal with the word redeem/redemption?
The story of Exodus and the Passover when the Israelites were &quotassed over" by the angel of death and their firstborn were spared, there was a price. That price was blood. The Israelites had to "buy back" their children that were spared with blood sacrifices. Redeem means to buy back.

It's extremely hard for us, in this century to wrap our minds around all of this blood. We don't think like this any more and we don't act like this any more. God doesn't require us to take first born lambs, calves, birds, grain, etc to the priest every time we sin, anymore. Jesus replaced the blood requirement and redeemed us all, once and for all.

He is not. In fact, Pharaoh would have let them go but god "hardened his heart" making it so he didn't. How is that all loving and patient?

From Exodus 10:1-2,
God hardened the hearts of Pharaoh and his officials so that God's miraculous signs would be allowed among them(Egyptians) and so the Israelites would tell their children and grandchildren that God deals harshly with the Egyptians and how God performs these miracles so that the Israelites would know he is God.

Exodus 11:1 God tells Moses about the last plague and that "Pharaoh will let you go from here, and when he does, he will drive you out completely."

Exodus 11:2 tells of the instructions for the Israelites "to ask the Egyptians for silver and gold."

Exodus 11:3 explains that "God made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the Israelites and Moses was highly regarded in Egypt by Pharaoh's officials and people."

Exodus 11:6-8 describes the crying throughout Egypt after the firstborn all die..."worse than there has ever been or ever will be again." Contrasting the silence amongst the Israelites even the dogs won't bark. [b]Then you will know that the Lord makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel. Moses continues warning Pharaoh of every aspect of what is to come and in closing says,"All these officials of yours will come to me, bowing down before me and saying, 'Go, you and all the people that follow you!' After that I will leave. Then Moses, hot with anger, left Pharaoh."

[i]They were there in the first place BECAUSE OF GOD sending a famine. It is just a chain of cruelty that ended with god's favorites being a little bit happier, costing many innocent lives, not only of the children and cattle but of the soldiers killed in the see and the thousands who died in the plagues.

That's your opinion.

Oh well that makes it the Pharaohs fault for God killing because you know an omnipotent being had no other choice but to kill in order to free some slaves from a mortal ruler. It's not like God could have found a non violent means of freeing everyone with his omnipotence.

Of course God could have but that wasn't going to redeem his chosen people.

[quote][i]Last I checked, we were not living under Satan and the only person he tested was Job. And an omnipotent god could not just move your rewards? And if he was given god's permission, then why is he considered evil?[/i][/quote]\r\n\r\nGood questions, finally 314d1, I consider these to be legitimate questions and not plain arguments, it'll be a pleasure to answer them, as best I can.\r\n\r\nPaul, Jesus, James, and others in the New Testament warn of satans cunning in luring the hearts and minds of believers by causing us to:\r\n*  doubt the existence of GOD, Jesus and the Holy Spirit\r\n*  doubt our salvation/redemption,(I get to redemption a little later)\r\n*  lose faith in the authority of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit\r\nand in many other, subtle ways, slowly over a period of time.\r\n\r\nThe streets will be paved with purist gold, the walls of heaven will be layered with precious gems and the gates will be of solid pearl.  Our rewards, money, jewelry, stuff is all going to rot, rust and be stolen away when our earthly bodies "give up the ghost". We won't need that stuff/junk any more, we won't even miss it.\r\nJob's story tells us that God doesn't need a reason to send satan to test us and to know God is much more important than to know all of the answers to our questions.  This may seem as if I'm avoiding the question but the main goal is to know and trust God no matter what happens to us, our family, our possessions.\r\n\r\nSatan is considered evil because he thinks he is smarter, better looking, and more powerful than the one who created him.  That's the lesson we get from the potsherd story. \r\n\r\n\r\n[quote][i] So you are saying that it is OK to murder innocents as long as it is for a warning? The first borns had done nothing wrong. They were only children of the people who pissed god off. He killed innocents EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW IT WOULD EFFECT NOTHING! If he was omniscient, he would have known that killing all the first borns would be pointless, yet he still did it...[/i][/quote]\r\n\r\nThe problem everyone has with these questions is that we place GOD on a human level, he is spirit.  He sent his son, in the form of a human to [b]redeem[/b] Gods chosen children both Jew and Greek.\r\nWhat's the big deal with the word redeem/redemption?\r\n  The story of Exodus and the Passover when the Israelites were "passed over" by the angel of death and their firstborn were spared, there was a price.  That price was blood.  The Israelites had to "buy back" their children that were spared with blood sacrifices.  Redeem means to buy back.\r\n\r\nIt's extremely hard for us, in this century to wrap our minds around all of this blood.  We don't think like this any more and we don't act like this any more.  God doesn't require us to take first born lambs, calves, birds, grain, etc to the priest every time we sin, anymore.  Jesus replaced the blood requirement and [b]redeemed[/b] us all, once and for all.\r\n\r\n[quote][i]He is not. In fact, Pharaoh would have let them go but god "hardened his heart" making it so he didn't. How is that all loving and patient? [/i][/quote]\r\n\r\nFrom Exodus 10:1-2,\r\nGod hardened the hearts of Pharaoh and his officials so that God's miraculous signs would be [i]allowed[/i] among them(Egyptians) and so the Israelites would tell their children and grandchildren that God deals harshly with the Egyptians and [i]how God performs these miracles[/i] so that the Israelites would know he is God.\r\n\r\nExodus 11:1 God tells Moses about the last plague and that "Pharaoh will let you go from here, and when he does, he will drive you out completely."\r\n\r\nExodus 11:2 tells of the instructions for the Israelites "to ask the Egyptians for silver and gold."\r\n\r\nExodus 11:3 explains that "God made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the Israelites and Moses was highly regarded in Egypt by Pharaoh's officials and people."\r\n\r\nExodus 11:6-8 describes the crying throughout Egypt after the firstborn all die..."worse than there has ever been or ever will be again." Contrasting the silence amongst the Israelites even the dogs won't bark. [i][b]Then you will know that the Lord makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel.  Moses continues warning Pharaoh of every aspect of what is to come and in closing says,"All these officials of yours will come to me, bowing down before me and saying, 'Go, you and all the people that follow you!' After that I will leave. Then Moses, hot with anger, left Pharaoh."\r\n\r\n\r\n[quote][i]They were there in the first place BECAUSE OF GOD sending a famine. It is just a chain of cruelty that ended with god's favorites being a little bit happier, costing many innocent lives, not only of the children and cattle but of the soldiers killed in the see and the thousands who died in the plagues.[/i][/quote]\r\n\r\n\r\nThat's your opinion.\r\n\r\n\r\n[quote][i]Oh well that makes it the Pharaohs fault for God killing because you know an omnipotent being had no other choice but to kill in order to free some slaves from a mortal ruler. It's not like God could have found a non violent means of freeing everyone with his omnipotence.[/i][/quote]\r\n\r\nOf course God could have but that wasn't going to redeem his chosen people.

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted June 15, '10 11:51pm UTC

The problem everyone has with these questions is that we place GOD on a human level, he is spirit.

No that's not the problem. The problem is this God is suppose to be far better then us and that just does not show.

He sent his son, in the form of a human to redeem Gods chosen children both Jew and Greek.
What's the big deal with the word redeem/redemption?

God had to have a human sacrifice in order to say your forgiven? This story doesn't illustrate how good God is but just how sick he is. It doesn't matter if it was his son or not. Thinking about it, it make it worse being his son.

The story of Exodus and the Passover when the Israelites were &quotassed over" by the angel of death and their firstborn were spared, there was a price. That price was blood. The Israelites had to "buy back" their children that were spared with blood sacrifices. Redeem means to buy back.

A price God set. This is exactly what I mean about the consequences come from God's hand rather then the choice.

It's extremely hard for us, in this century to wrap our minds around all of this blood. We don't think like this any more and we don't act like this any more. God doesn't require us to take first born lambs, calves, birds, grain, etc to the priest every time we sin, anymore. Jesus replaced the blood requirement and redeemed us all, once and for all.

Yeah we advanced beyond such barbarism. Why was God into such barbarism in the first place? The requirement of blood at all weather it be animal sacrifice or human sacrifice is what makes God blood thirsty.

Requiring blood is not the action of an all loving, all powerful being. However I would expect it to be the action of a blood thirsty tyrant.

Of course God could have but that wasn't going to redeem his chosen people.

Nice excuse, sounds a bit like the battered house wife again.
"Yeah I could have chosen not to hit her but if I didn't she wouldn't learn her lesson."

Time to stop getting fists in the face and calling them doorknobs.

[quote]The problem everyone has with these questions is that we place GOD on a human level, he is spirit.[/quote]\r\n\r\nNo that's not the problem. The problem is this God is suppose to be far better then us and that just does not show.\r\n\r\n[quote]He sent his son, in the form of a human to redeem Gods chosen children both Jew and Greek.\r\nWhat's the big deal with the word redeem/redemption?[/quote]\r\n\r\nGod had to have a human sacrifice in order to say your forgiven? This story doesn't illustrate how good God is but just how sick he is. It doesn't matter if it was his son or not. Thinking about it, it make it worse being his son.\r\n\r\n[quote]The story of Exodus and the Passover when the Israelites were "passed over" by the angel of death and their firstborn were spared, there was a price.  That price was blood.  The Israelites had to "buy back" their children that were spared with blood sacrifices.  Redeem means to buy back.[/quote]\r\n\r\nA price God set. This is exactly what I mean about the consequences come from God's hand rather then the choice.\r\n\r\n[quote]It's extremely hard for us, in this century to wrap our minds around all of this blood.  We don't think like this any more and we don't act like this any more.  God doesn't require us to take first born lambs, calves, birds, grain, etc to the priest every time we sin, anymore.  Jesus replaced the blood requirement and redeemed us all, once and for all. [/quote]\r\n\r\nYeah we advanced beyond such barbarism. Why was God into such barbarism in the first place? The requirement of blood at all weather it be animal sacrifice or human sacrifice is what makes God blood thirsty.\r\n\r\nRequiring blood is not the action of an all loving, all powerful being. However I would expect it to be the action of a blood thirsty tyrant.\r\n\r\n[quote]Of course God could have but that wasn't going to redeem his chosen people.[/quote]\r\n\r\nNice excuse, sounds a bit like the battered house wife again.\r\n"Yeah I could have chosen not to hit her but if I didn't she wouldn't learn her lesson."\r\n\r\nTime to stop getting fists in the face and calling them doorknobs.

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BlackIce131

260 posts

Nomad

Posted June 16, '10 1:46am UTC

Discussions on religion that involve debate, are pathetic.

if you try to debate about the devil existing, your retarded.

I tried this argument dacer, it doesn't work.

I just try not to get involved with anything pro or against religion in public areas, which i have just failed at by posting this comment.

Really though i think if someone is religious or non religious, keeping it too themselves and in their house or areas menant for it is the only way to get any good out of either.
Last thing you want to do is get into a flame war.

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