ForumsWEPRGoing Green Is No Longer A Choice... In Cleveland

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NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

If you have not already left Cleveland, then get out now.

Chips will be installed inside your recycling bins and they will monitor how often you take your recycling to the street. If you go weeks without taking the crap to the curb, then an official will be sent to dig through your garbage, your WASTE, and fine you 100 dollars if they find materials that could have been recycled.

Let me say this again,you will be fined if you do not recycle.

The money to enforce this new law will come from the taxpayers. No matter what, if you live in Cleveland, your taxes will raise, and you will lose money on top of that if you don't recycle. You just can't win! There is no reward, only punishment. If you have never committed a crime, then understand that you will be treated like a criminal.

If you don't live in Cleveland, then you shouldn't have to worry. Just don't let this law take over your own home town!

  • 55 Replies
goumas13
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goumas13
4,752 posts
Grand Duke

Glass is profitable to recycle. Glass recycling uses less energy than manufacturing it. Also glass does not biodegrade, so millions of tones of glass would accumulate over time.

Some things are lucrative to recycle, some things have important environmental benefits, but unfortunately some things are not even worth trying to recycle.
The items should be categorized by cost-benefit analysis. Add up the costs, then the benefits, and see which outweighs the other.

loloynage2
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loloynage2
4,206 posts
Peasant

If you don't live in Cleveland, then you shouldn't have to worry. Just don't let this law take over your own home town!


Well actually there are a lot of idiots that can't recycle obvious stuff, for being too lazy or w/e. So i think in 1 part of it, it is a good idea. There are anyways lots of recycling sites/industry. Shouldn't we use them?

Recycling is already BS. It's a great idea, but it's costly, it pollutes just as much as throwing trash in land fills, and it's over all -- unreliable. Metals are the only thing worth recycling.


its not "BS". And no in a long therm, throwing in the garbage pollutes more. And so what if it cost more money? Sometimes to make changes you have to sacrifice a bit of superficial stuff lie money. It's true that recycling isn't the best thing, but dam it is better then land fills.
Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

Recycling is already BS. It's a great idea, but it's costly, it pollutes just as much as throwing trash in land fills, and it's over all -- unreliable. Metals are the only thing worth recycling.

According the article you linked, it costs the city $30/ton to put waste into a dump or landfill. On the other hand, the city actually makes $26 (or maybe it was $28, can't remember) per ton of recycled material.
Now I realize there's much more to the economics of this than how much the city makes for turning in recyclables. But I just don't know enough about the national or global economics of recycling to say anything intelligent on the matter at all.

Still, I fundamentally disagree with what you're saying, NoName. And that may just be because recycling propaganda has filled my head for most of my life. But one basic axiom that seems undeniably true is that there's a limited amount of space for landfills. Recycling keeps items out of the ground that would never decompose in the landfills (and some that would). That alone seems completely worth it.
woody_7007
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woody_7007
2,662 posts
Peasant

Now, even if recycling did work in a reliable fashion, it shouldn't be forced on the citizens until there is reliable evidence that there will be ecological problems that effect the earth, wild life, and human being, in the near future. When I say near future, I mean we have hundred and hundreds of years before it will even become a problem.


Recycling does work in a reliable fashion. Landfills are only useful in the short to medium term. In any case, there is ample evidence to suggest that landfills cause environmental problems , in the short to medium term too.

Either way, i get sick of the us using up a 1/4 of the worlds resources and then using the whole individual freedom argument to wriggle out of accepting some responsibility for their actions. If you want to keep consuming at such a pace, fine, just recycle some of it for future generations.
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,573 posts
Blacksmith

Also I feel a massive issue and a blow to the worlds abilities to recycle is our use of material i.e. plastics and other stuff that cannot be recycled.

I understand smaller companies might have a hard time but the big boyz have no excuse. Why are not all plastics made so they can be recycled?

goumas13
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goumas13
4,752 posts
Grand Duke

If managed correctly, recycling programs should cost taxpayers less than garbage disposal for any given equivalent amount of material.

Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Source?

Sarthra21
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Sarthra21
1,078 posts
Nomad

I'm all for going green, but a 100 dollar fine for not recycling is too much! I mean, I could see a 100 dollar fine for leaving your car on when you go into the grocery store, but for not recycling? Crazy folk...

TheTerminator
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TheTerminator
174 posts
Nomad

If we don't recycle, the materials will sit in the landfills and take up space and take forever to decompose. If we do recycle however, the carbon dioxide released by remelting the plastics will create a hole in the ozone. There is no way to win, except for this. Plasma Gasification

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Glass is profitable to recycle. Glass recycling uses less energy than manufacturing it. Also glass does not biodegrade, so millions of tones of glass would accumulate over time.


I honestly forgot all about glass.

According the article you linked, it costs the city $30/ton to put waste into a dump or landfill. On the other hand, the city actually makes $26 (or maybe it was $28, can't remember) per ton of recycled material.
Now I realize there's much more to the economics of this than how much the city makes for turning in recyclables. But I just don't know enough about the national or global economics of recycling to say anything intelligent on the matter at all.


It's easy to say that a profit can made from recycling, but that's because any money loss is covered up and hidden by subsidies taken out of taxes. The price of any "green" product should reflect how expensive recycling is. Goods made from recycled products tend to be very expensive.

Paper is a joke to recycle. Sure, if you throw paper away, it will sit in a landfill, but it will degrade. Trees are a renewable resource, and we aren't running out of trees. In fact, the more paper you buy, the more demand there is for paper, which means the more demand in planting trees. If we stopped buying paper, then there would be less profit in growing trees, which in turn means we would actually see the number of trees decline.

To recycle paper, it must be sorted ($), shipped ($), blended ($), exposed to chemicals ($), and overall morphed into the new product ($). Is it really worth the fuel and resources to turn a box of paper into... paper?

Plastics and metals such as aluminum are worth recycling because it is cheaper, and easier, to reuse both of those resources than to dig for new ones. It's the reason you see people sorting their trash and picking out aluminum cans and glass bottles.

Plastics fall under the same line as paper. The only difference is that plastic doesn't degrade in the ground. Otherwise it's more costly to reuse it than it is to throw it away. The fuels and other chemical treatments costs money and also pollute the earth as well.

Landfills are only useful in the short to medium term. In any case, there is ample evidence to suggest that landfills cause environmental problems http://www.zerowasteamerica.org/Landfills.htm, in the short to medium term too.


Landfills are the number one reason why people recycle. The site you linked forgets to mention that multiple layers of liners are used and foot after foot of impermeable clay, gravel, and drainage systems are laid down.

To top it all off, you can gain energy from landfills. Sure, it's a limited process, but at least we are taking advantage of what we can get. After a landfill is full, it is topped off and monitored. If you flew over a topped off landfill, you wouldn't even notice it was there.

I dislike the idea of trash sitting in our ground as much as anyone else. However, if you were to combine 1000 years worth of trash from all the landfills in the united states and put them in one huge landfill that was 100 yards deep, the landfill would only be 35 miles squared. I'm not suggesting we create one huge land fill, I'm just pointing out that we aren't on the edge of disaster. Who knows? We may find a way to decrease the amount of space used in landfills or a more reliable way to recycle by then.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Plastics and metals such as aluminum are worth recycling because it is cheaper, and easier, to reuse both of those resources than to dig for new ones.


I'm sorry, I messed up. Omit "Plastics and".

and easier, to reuse both of those resources


Omit "both of".

I was referring to glass and metals such as aluminum, but you don't mine for glass. That was a terrible paragraph.
woody_7007
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woody_7007
2,662 posts
Peasant

Trees are a renewable resource, and we aren't running out of trees.


You must be joking. Take a look at any country, and the picture painted is alarming. In any case, just do the simple maths. It takes decades or even centuries for most trees to regrow. It takes weeks to manufacture and use paper.

The site you linked forgets to mention that multiple layers of liners are used and foot after foot of impermeable clay, gravel, and drainage systems are laid down.


Then how do the leakages still occur?

I'm not suggesting we create one huge land fill, I'm just pointing out that we aren't on the edge of disaster. Who knows? We may find a way to decrease the amount of space used in landfills or a more reliable way to recycle by then.


I still dont see how that justifies being anti recycling legislation. If you acknowledge the imperfections of land fills as well as the attractiveness of recycling, how can you maintain the position that recycling legislation is an unjustified attack on personal freedom?
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Deforestation in the Brazlian Amazon, 1988-present
60-70 percent of deforestation in the Amazon results from cattle ranches while the rest mostly results from small-scale subsistence agriculture. Despite the widespread press attention, large-scale farming (i.e. soybeans) currently contributes relatively little to total deforestation in the Amazon. Most soybean cultivation takes place outside the rainforest in the neighboring cerrado grassland ecosystem and in areas that have already been cleared. Logging results in forest degradation but rarely direct deforestation. However, studies have showed a close correlation between logging and future clearing for settlement and farming.


Simply put, they are clearing the forest to make more room for cattle ranches and settlement and in some cases, farming.

Then how do the leakages still occur?


They don't? I'm sorry, I failed to actually see the evidence in the site of actual cases where this happened. I didn't thoroughly look through it, so it may need to be pointed out for me.

This chart shows how much forest is cleared. The chart itself doesn't state who is clearing the land or why.

I would also like to see statistics showing how much of the forest has been replanted. However, I am not sure how logging works in Brazil and I don't know if you have to replant what you cut down.

It's surprisingly difficult to find information on logging in Google. However, I have heard that we have more forests today than we did in 1920, at least in America.

It's hard to rely on maps pointing out the number of forests on the internet. The reason we have less forests than we did before the 1800s is because we chopped them down so we had room to create settlements. In some cases, logging has destroyed forests, however, we now replant more trees than we cut down.

I want to see a site that doesn't talk about how much woodland we cut down while ignoring how much woodland is replanted. I'm having a hard time finding such a site. I would prefer to see statistics involving North America and locations farmed by North American loggers. I wouldn't doubt that there's a failure to replant trees in some parts of the world.

If you acknowledge the imperfections of land fills as well as the attractiveness of recycling


1. I never acknowledged the attractiveness of recycling. Recycling, as of now, is very unreliable.

2. We can not give up our freedoms unless there is a substantial amount of evidence deeming the environment to be highly at risk.

So far, I have not heard any news reports talking about citizens being poisoned from ground water due to nearby landfills or anything closely related to landfill contamination.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Oh, and:

3. We can not give up our freedoms for a system that is questionable and puts us deeper into debt while creating pollution, defeating the point of recycling in the first place.

benman113
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benman113
329 posts
Peasant

There just so close to candian (the country that required jailers by law to give crimnials a loaded gun and a horse so they could ride out of town)that the weird law maker sickness just spread to them.
You shouldn't be forced to recycle thats obivous I would just take my recycling bin out to the curb every so often

monitor how often you take your recycling to the street

All is fair in love and greed
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