Why do governments feel the need to make drugs illegal? If anything, it causes a lot more problems than there were before. If they were legalized, there would not be nearly as many violent actions over getting them since the prices would not be nearly as high. There would not been as many people over doing it with drugs, since it would eventually just become a normal thing in day-to-day life.
I don't mean that the moonshine black market has shrunk since re-legalization, I mean the whole alcohol trade. During Prohibition, it was all illegal. After it was re-legalized, only moonshine remained illegal, drastically shrinking the black market.
I never said it would stay the same if drugs were made legal. Its obvious it would initially shrink alot, I never said it wouldn't. But it wouldn't go away, and would probably grow after regulations made it hard for people to get the drugs.
Also, the article says that a lot of the moonshine industry in Texas is just dying, not necessarily just being destroyed by cops.
It is dieing because of cops. Cops make it hard for moonshiners to make, sell and transport their product. If it weren't for that the moonshine business would be booming.
but it is not definite that it is a multi-billion dollar industry in the context of the debate because you haven't given hard numbers to support that claim.
Do you have any idea how impossible it is to get "hard numbers" on moonshine? All you can get are estimates. And given the fact that a single group of moonshiners in a specific area made multi millions, you can assume others throughout the country are too. Once again just 100 such multi million dollar groups would make it a multi billion dollar industry.
That is untrue as well. It affects other countries as well; Mexico and Canada in particular, due to illegal trading over the border. Just like drug cartels in Mexico affect the U.S.
That is true, however most of the black market goods don't go into mexico. That makes no sense. And doesn't Canada have looser alcohol regulations than the US, if so that makes no sense either.
Hey, just gonna pop in and say some half thought out crap.
Alt, you seem to be arguing that drugs should be legalized because it would shrink the black market, similar to ending prohibition for alcohol. If that wasn't your position, I'm sorry if I can't be bothered to read pages of internet debates. Read on as if it was.
Now, while this seems logical at first glance, it also seems that you couldn't have missed the point more if you fired in the wrong direction and the point was on the moon. If murder and assault were legalized, violent crime rates would drop drastically. This doesn't necessarily mean that these things should be legalized. Drugs are illegal because they should not be (ab)used, not because enforcing the laws is easy or because law makers felt that legalization would end a whole genre of gang movies. It's not about low crime rates, It's about preventing self destructive activity.
Now, feel free to shoot holes in the logic presented and I'll try to support whatever inane angle I'm currently working. After some of that, I might even join the debate.
I never said it would stay the same if drugs were made legal. Its obvious it would initially shrink alot, I never said it wouldn't. But it wouldn't go away, and would probably grow after regulations made it hard for people to get the drugs.
. . . .
So you've been arguing against points I haven't been making. I've just been saying that they would shrink, and you were arguing against that allllllll along. Hrm.
It is dieing because of cops. Cops make it hard for moonshiners to make, sell and transport their product. If it weren't for that the moonshine business would be booming.
Go back to your article and read the part about Northeastern Texas. The cops are saying that after the senior generation dies out, there'll be almost no moonshine left there due to the tradition dying out.
Do you have any idea how impossible it is to get "hard numbers" on moonshine? All you can get are estimates. And given the fact that a single group of moonshiners in a specific area made multi millions, you can assume others throughout the country are too. Once again just 100 such multi million dollar groups would make it a multi billion dollar industry.
Depend on how multi those multi-millions are, and how many groups there really are.
I know it's tough to get hard numbers. But you've said without certainty that it's a multi-billion dollar industry and used it to support apart of your argument while it stands technically unsupported.
That is true, however most of the black market goods don't go into mexico. That makes no sense. And doesn't Canada have looser alcohol regulations than the US, if so that makes no sense either.
I never said most of it goes into Mexico; I said that it does have an effect anyway. Therefore, it makes sense. How do Canadian laws on alcohol have anything to do with our discussion? I said the U.S. problems, such as black markets, affect other countries, especially nearby ones, because it is so large and powerful. So your point doesn't make sense.
Drugs are illegal because they should not be (ab)used
I find this debatable. Weed doesn't actually harm the body in any way, so it is in fact better for you than many legal products like cigarettes and alcohol. Now abusing anything is different, no one should every abuse any substance but that is impossible to stop so it matters not.
Depend on how multi those multi-millions are, and how many groups there really are.
the more multi million those numbers are, the fewer groups are needed to make it a billion. And since multi implies at least 2 million, with 50 groups you would have a billion dollar industry. Yes it does depend on the number of groups, but the US is a big place.
I never said most of it goes into Mexico; I said that it does have an effect anyway. Therefore, it makes sense. How do Canadian laws on alcohol have anything to do with our discussion? I said the U.S. problems, such as black markets, affect other countries, especially nearby ones, because it is so large and powerful. So your point doesn't make sense.
The effect on Mexico is probably small to non-existent because they probably have their own moonshine businesses. And Canadian laws do matter because it could be cheaper to get legal alcohol than buying moonshine.
Now, while this seems logical at first glance, it also seems that you couldn't have missed the point more if you fired in the wrong direction and the point was on the moon. If murder and assault were legalized, violent crime rates would drop drastically. This doesn't necessarily mean that these things should be legalized. Drugs are illegal because they should not be (ab)used, not because enforcing the laws is easy or because law makers felt that legalization would end a whole genre of gang movies. It's not about low crime rates, It's about preventing self destructive activity.
The problem with that analogy is that murder and assault will not become less dangerous if they're legalized and regulated, while hard drugs will. That's alf of my entire argument, and your analogy doesn't cover it.
Even if they shouldn't be used or abused, people do use and abuse them - so instead of trying and failing to get them to stop, why don't we do our best to make it as safe as possible for them to use illegal drugs without being killed in one way or another? We can't cure the disease, so we should at least treat it.
the more multi million those numbers are, the fewer groups are needed to make it a billion. And since multi implies at least 2 million, with 50 groups you would have a billion dollar industry. Yes it does depend on the number of groups, but the US is a big place.
No, you'd need 500 groups. 1 billion is 1000 million, not 100 million, and 2 million X 50 groups making 2 mil. each = 100 million, not 1000 million.
The effect on Mexico is probably small to non-existent because they probably have their own moonshine businesses. And Canadian laws do matter because it could be cheaper to get legal alcohol than buying moonshine.
My point still stands; American crime affects countries around it.
Sorry about that, guess my math is off tonight. But I swear that I read somewhere that its a multi billion dollar industry.
Lol
Well, it may be a multi-billion dollar industry now, but the main thing is it's all that's left of what was once an exponentially larger black market for alcohol.
Also, I don't see why the regulations would grow the black market. I'm talking about giving hard drugs the same types of regulations as tobacco and alcohol - age requirements, selling regulations, etc.
Another important thing to consider is that if they're made legal, companies will probably start researching drugs to help quit - like Chantix with nicotine, for example - which'll generate more revenue for drug companies and make quitting easier.
Now, while this seems logical at first glance, it also seems that you couldn't have missed the point more if you fired in the wrong direction and the point was on the moon. If murder and assault were legalized, violent crime rates would drop drastically. This doesn't necessarily mean that these things should be legalized. Drugs are illegal because they should not be (ab)used, not because enforcing the laws is easy or because law makers felt that legalization would end a whole genre of gang movies. It's not about low crime rates, It's about preventing self destructive activity.
If marijuana was legalized, more people will smoke it. If killing was legalized, more people will kill. If marijuana was legalized, the black market would go away. If killing was legalized, more people would... kill.
You need to make sure there are parrallels to the objects and events that you compare.
Oh also, the government should allow people to make bad decisions. I don't care if drugs are bad, as long as they aren't hurting everybody else. Maybe the government should make it illegal to order more than 2 double quarter pounders from McDonalds. I don't care if people should not do drugs, it's not the government's say. I do believe that most hard drugs should remain illegal because they are addicting and can cause harm to other people, depending on the drug. I predict that legal marijuana would decrease hard drug use by a big enough amount to were it isn't nearly as big a problem as it is today.
The government should not be involved in people's personal lives unless those people are harming others.
I do believe that most hard drugs should remain illegal because they are addicting and can cause harm to other people, depending on the drug
Surely by this standard we should judge what should be legal/illegal by the amount of harm it causes. In statistical terms this would mean the number of addictions and deaths. If that is the case, we would have to prohibit alcohol and ciggarrettes. Clearly there is a problem here. Operating on this standard, it's not enough to advocate legalisation only for weaker drugs like marijuana. It has been statistically proven that heroin and cocaine, although seen as the most dangerous, the majority of users are in fact not technically addicts. With this in mind, I would advocate complete legalisation for all drugs of all strengths.
Oh also, the government should allow people to make bad decisions. I don't care if drugs are bad, as long as they aren't hurting everybody else. Maybe the government should make it illegal to order more than 2 double quarter pounders from McDonalds. I don't care if people should not do drugs, it's not the government's say. I do believe that most hard drugs should remain illegal because they are addicting and can cause harm to other people, depending on the drug. I predict that legal marijuana would decrease hard drug use by a big enough amount to were it isn't nearly as big a problem as it is today
Here is the things the government doesn't really care if drugs are bad. some people but, if the Government could make a profit out of this they would. But, they dont so, here is the things when we say drugs we arent only talking about marijuana or cocaine or other drugs like that. We are also, talking about drugs like the ones we use for medicine, hospitals stuff like that. So, if the country is selling them to people but, they can get it from the dude that lives accross the street for a cheaper prices that ruins the economy. Same way printing fake money than selling it for a cheaper price and people buy it thinking its real instead of going to an actual Government office to buy american dollars. Selling burgers make people obese who ever doesnt control themselves but, the Government gets money because than that burger place make a Franchise and stuff like that
