ForumsWEPRA Canadian Against ObamaCare, Eh?

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NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

The Road to CanadaCare? Sally Pipes on The Truth About ObamaCare

This lady is Fing crazy. There's no way national health care can fail. It's a fail proof plan. Obama plans on giving people MORE health care options, not create a monopoly.

Look at this lady. She is obviously faking her scenario.

Ok, maybe I am being biased only posting stuff from ReasonTV, an obviously biased and corrupted source. Nobody else out there is as misinformed as Reason TV, are they?

What about this guy? Hmm, he seems pretty crazy as well. I don't trust his real time, non rehearsed approach. I guess there are other nut jobs out there.

Thisperson was obviously hired by Fox news to lie. It's a conspiracy, I swear.

Canadian health care is awesome. I'm glad America is run by Liberals. Power to the people, through government control and regulation!

  • 79 Replies
Joe96
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Joe96
2,226 posts
Peasant

Umm...Obama's an idiot(DON"T HATE ON ME!!!).
By the way, I'm not sure if you live in America or not (if you don't, than I don't really think you can give an honest opinion), but when this thing comes out in 4 years, we will be paying taxes through the roof to pay for the bums of society who never even try to do anything, but take advantage of welfare. I really hope someone cancels this dumb health package.

wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

Umm...Obama's an idiot


Because...

By the way, I'm not sure if you live in America or not (if you don't, than I don't really think you can give an honest opinion), but when this thing comes out in 4 years, we will be paying taxes through the roof to pay for the bums of society who never even try to do anything, but take advantage of welfare. I really hope someone cancels this dumb health package.


The Canadian thinks that he CAN offer an honest opinion seeing as Canada has a universal healthcare system.

See this is what I hate about people who support private healtcare. They simply look what they view as a "negative" side of it. Every think that these "bums" are suffering from an illness that, if treated, could allow them to become productive in society? No, you didn't. Furthermore what if a middle class family falls on hard times, hell the middle class is getting poorer, and then someone gets sick, well at least they don't worry about medical bills as well. Or an upper middle classman gets cancer? The space between rich and poor is getting wider, and a private system won't help anyone who's not on the rich side.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Every think that these "bums" are suffering from an illness that, if treated, could allow them to become productive in society? No, you didn't.


Bums who rely on charity most often remain bums.

Furthermore what if a middle class family falls on hard times


Maybe we should also have the government buy them food, clothes, and help pay their electric bill?

hell the middle class is getting poorer,


If you're middle class, answer a few questions. How many cars do you own? How many computers? Do you have internet? How many stories is your house? How many pets do you have? How many siblings do you have?

It all depends what you mean by the middle class getting poorer.

Jan has 5 dollars, Mike has 15 dollars, Tony has 30 dollars. After a year, Jan still has 5 dollars, Mike has 15 dollars, and Tony has 60 dollars. Did mike become any more poor?

The answer is simple, it depends on how much everything cost. This is a terrible example, but let's say the average price of fast food started at 5 dollars and after a year it was still 5 dollars. In this case, Mike did not become any more poor. If the price went up to 10 dollars, then Mike did become more poor.

If Mike took 20 dollars from Tony so that Mike has 35 dollars, and Tony has 40, Mike will still become poorer if the prices of fast food rose to 20 dollars as a result. So yeah, you can gain money and become poorer at the same time. That's why taking from the rich doesn't necessarily work.

and then someone gets sick, well at least they don't worry about medical bills as well.


That's quite noble of you to care for them. However, when the family isn't sick, they have to worry about increased taxes. When the family isn't sick, everyone has to worry about increased taxes.

The space between rich and poor is getting wider, and a private system won't help anyone who's not on the rich side.


Again, I agree that the current system is flawed. No matter what system you use, you need to make some sort of profit. There's no such thing as non-profit, because gaining EXACTLY how much you spend is like trying to hit a nat 20 feet away with a dart. Either you make money, or you lose it. So profit is what we are looking for.

The problem with current health care is that they make so much money that they are able to offer hospitals a large sum of money. Doctors and patients do not consider how much an operation costs if they have insurance. Without insurance (or the current system), patients would have to look for operations that they can afford. Hospitals will have to compete with each other for these patients so they will lower the prices of their operations so that people without insurance or a better form of private care can still afford the operation.

I would gladly give up having insurance if 500 dollar operations became 150 dollar operations!

Personally, I believe HSAs (Health Savings Account) sound like a pretty good system. I admit I will have to do more research on HSA success, but the money you put in is yours.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
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Farmer

Maybe we should also have the government buy them food, clothes, and help pay their electric bill?


I love how you take things to the far right. Must be the American in you. You ever consider I stand on more of a middle ground? Yeah I support universal healthcare, that doesn't mean I think the government must do everything for me. Just because someone supports a socialist policy doesn't make that person completely socialist -_-'

It all depends what you mean by the middle class getting poorer.


The cost of living increases yet people make the same amount of money. Thus they become poorer. Like I said the gap between rich and poor is getting bigger.

I'm shocked you didn't comdemn my example of cancer.

That's quite noble of you to care for them. However, when the family isn't sick, they have to worry about increased taxes. When the family isn't sick, everyone has to worry about increased taxes.


This is true. However I would rather worry over something in small increments than some large hospital fine that gets slapped in my face and then be harrassed by credit collectors as I struggle to pay the fine. (And I know you'll take this to the extreme as well).
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

This

The cost of living increases yet people make the same amount of money. Thus they become poorer.


And this

Like I said the gap between rich and poor is getting bigger.


Are completely unrelated.

A small gap between rich and poor does not make the poor any more rich. It just makes everyone poorer.

However I would rather worry over something in small increments than some large hospital fine that gets slapped in my face and then be harrassed by credit collectors as I struggle to pay the fine.


UHC and most of the current health care systems overpay hospitals. If you are fully covered by insurance, you do not question the price of your operations or medicine as long as it is covered by health care.

Under a better health care system that forces individuals to watch over their money, people will start looking for hospitals that offer cheaper services. This will, in turn, force hospitals to compete with each other. This will result in hospitals lowering their prices as well as striving for better services (like any other free market business).

I'm shocked you didn't comdemn my example of cancer.


This means the person with cancer who does not have insurance will be able to afford medicine and other operations even without health care.

I love how you take things to the far right. Must be the American in you.


I lean to the far right when it comes to the economy. I believe in small government control over the market.

I lean to the far left when it comes to personal liberties. I believe in small government control over one's personal rights.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Sorry.

This

A small gap between rich and poor does not make the poor any more rich.


does not mean

It just makes everyone poorer.


A small gap can mean anything. It can mean everyone is richer or poorer. I did the same thing I was criticizing.

However, I fear that taking from the rich to make the poor richer will only result in everyone being poorer.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

However, I fear that taking from the rich to make the poor richer will only result in everyone being poorer.


It sure doesn't work the other way around, where you give the rich breaks and let the money trickle down to the poor.
zocc1
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zocc1
183 posts
Nomad

How are you saying it does work then? If you tax a company more the price of the product that they make will go up. I will use gas as an example. If you tax a gas company/high payed employs and give the money to the poor price of gas will go up. Then most of the poor/middle class will have to buy gas and in the end the poor might break even from it and the middle class will end up paying for it. The middle class will get poorer and the rich will stay rich.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

How are you saying it does work then? If you tax a company more the price of the product that they make will go up. I will use gas as an example. If you tax a gas company/high payed employs and give the money to the poor price of gas will go up. Then most of the poor/middle class will have to buy gas and in the end the poor might break even from it and the middle class will end up paying for it. The middle class will get poorer and the rich will stay rich.


I say that because it was tried and it didn't work. Rather then the money funneling back to the poor in the form of lower prices the money just went into the pockets of the already rich. So all that happened was the rich got richer. Eliminating the middle class isn't a good thing either. That only creates a bigger gulf between the two groups.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
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Shepherd

I say that because it was tried and it didn't work. Rather then the money funneling back to the poor in the form of lower prices the money just went into the pockets of the already rich. So all that happened was the rich got richer.


Again, who cares if the rich got richer? As long as the poor can afford better living conditions, they become richer.

How rich the upper class is does not determine how poor the middle and lower class are. Please refer to my example on page 7.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Again, who cares if the rich got richer? As long as the poor can afford better living conditions, they become richer.


It's matters when it's almost only the rich benefiting with negative effects on the lower classes.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

I may have to bow out of this. It's kind of hard to debate the subject When I can't find a side to be on.

wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

Again, who cares if the rich got richer? As long as the poor can afford better living conditions, they become richer.


And if the poor cannot afford better living conditions?
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

And if the poor cannot afford better living conditions?


Then taking from the rich is not the answer.
colynrox
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colynrox
24 posts
Nomad

taking from anyone is not the ansewer
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