Well, I think of it more as an idealogical stance than a vice, but how do you feel about the objectification of women? As I see it, women are people. And another suprising fact, the Guy in my name truthfully indicates that I am male. I feel, that no matter where they are from, who they are, or what gender they have, people should be treated equally. Of course, that is my opinion, and so I will hope that people can share their views, even if they do believe in the objectification of women. So, please, no making insults on other people's comments. As the rules say, keep the debate friendly and clean. If possible, you can point out flaws, but, it is opinion. So remember, those are the rules, people!
Actually, the Bible makes a strong point that women are derivative of men and were created to serve men with child-rearing. It wasn't until Islam rolled around that women started getting near-equal treatment - prolly half of the great Arab scholars were women, and Sharia specifically mentions that women and men were separate entities created by Allah for the mutual benefit of each other, and that women should be treated with respect. It was the general cultural progression of the world and the shrinking importance of religion in daily life from the Middle Ages onward that made women less complacent with their inequality, leading up to the near-equality of today. I don't think complete equality will ever be realized, because male dominance is a biological evil that's pretty much patterned into our behavior.
Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote: As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power of the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of a woman comes from defect in the active power.
The women in the Bible are almost always considered inferior and are presented as stereotypes. The women that are mentioned in the Bible are either Saints or whores.
If Christianity really treated men and women as equals then the Catholic church would ease up on the 'We hate woman priests' thing. Also, many Christians point out that since Eve was created of Adams rib in the Bible - she is a servant to him and God and that therefore - all women are servant to men.
If Christianity really treated men and women as equals then the Catholic church would ease up on the 'We hate woman priests' thing. Also, many Christians point out that since Eve was created of Adams rib in the Bible - she is a servant to him and God and that therefore - all women are servant to men.
It's a shame people see women as servants to men when they aren't.
The Bible does say that a wife should listen to her husband but many people see this as all women should listen to all men and of course a man can not make his wife listen to him,It is her choice if she want's to or not.
Holt, neither of your sources refute what I said. Women *did* start to get better treatment when Islam rolled around, irrespective of what is happening today or what it says in those Quran verses. Women were allowed to own property. Women were allowed to write books, and study, and all that. The existence of those verses doesn't change the fact that better treatment was happening when Muhammad was alive and when Islam first started. It's much different today, because of how much extremists have changed the landscape of the religion in the Middle East, but when Islam first started as a religion, women were given much better rights than they were under Christianity.
The main thing about the Bible is that it directly states that women are a derivative product of men and therefore incomplete and inferior to men.
I've got a better one than Eve being made out of Adam's rib.
The Bible does say that a wife should listen to her husband but many people see this as all women should listen to all men and of course a man can not make his wife listen to him,It is her choice if she want's to or not.
No, I'm afraid you're wrong on that point. The Bible directly states that men rule over women in Genesis 3:16.
"To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.
I'm actually surprised....I thought this wouldn't have any decent debate, but it does!
"To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.
This in no way shows that women are inferior to men.
It also says that women were created 'for the man,' which at the very least strongly implies that women were made to serve men. It also says that women should live for the man and submit to them here:
"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." ~Timothy 2:11-14
The Bible makes it startlingly clear that women are inferior and servant to men.
This in no way shows that women are inferior to men.
Okay, now you're just blindly denying. Did you read the thing? Maybe not. Here:
YOUR DESIRE WILL BE FOR YOUR HUSBAND, AND HE WILL RULE OVER YOU How does that not say that women are subservient to men? Your husband will rule over you? How can you not see that? I'm not saying it shows women are inferior to men, because they're not. I'm saying that's what the Bible says.
"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." ~Timothy 2:11-14
Once again this does not say anything about women being inferior.
It explains why women are not supposed to teach the word.
And to you Hypermnestra that is talking about husbands and wives not all men and women.
Once again this does not say anything about women being inferior.
Yes, it does. Read it again. It says that women must not usurp authority over the man, but sit in silence. They must remain under the man in terms of authority. That is inferiority.
Also, more verses. These are omitted from Protestant Bibles to make Christianity seem nicer.
"Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman." (Eccles. 25:13)
"Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die." (Eccles. 25:22)
"If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go." (Eccles. 25: 26)
"The whoredom of a woman may be known in her haughty looks and eyelids. If thy daughter be shameless, keep her in straitly, lest she abuse herself through overmuch liberty." (Eccles. 26:9-10)
"A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued." (Eccles. 26:14-15)
"A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord." (Eccles.26:25)
"For from garments cometh a moth, and from women wickedness. Better is the churlishness of a man than a courteous woman, a woman, I say, which bringeth shame and reproach." (Eccles. 42:13-14)
And to you Hypermnestra that is talking about husbands and wives not all men and women.
Very well then...if you're not going to read that, then read this. I now have more solid evidence wherein the Bible says men are superior to women. Here is a wonderful little bit where God gives humans value in money(shekels), in Leviticus 2-4(God is speaking to Moses).
2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'If anyone makes a special vow to dedicate persons to the LORD by giving equivalent values, 3 set the value of a male between the ages of twenty and sixty at fifty shekels of silver, according to the sanctuary shekel ; 4 and if it is a female, set her value at thirty shekels.
So according to God, females are worth half what men are. You were saying...?
And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver.... And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels. And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels. And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels. -- Leviticus 27:3-7
Basically - the viable says a woman is worth 2/3 of a mam.
