Well in the first place he created us to give glory to him and second he allowed us to sin in part because of free will. If we couldn't sin we would be mindless perfect zombies following god only because we have to not because we want to.
PUT THE MONEY IN THE BAG OR I WILL BLOW YOUR FUCKING HEAD OFF! But hey its free will, I don't want the people I am robbing to become mindless zombies...
No God does not lie.
What about to Moses? He new he wouldn't make it to the promised land, since he is omnipotent, but I think he, well promised it to him. How is that not a lie?
Also if you read the verse it doesn't say he will die that day.
Read the passages again there buddy. I even made them bold for you to see easier.
No God does not lie.
Ezekiel 14:9 And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
You do know that deceive is a synonym for 'lied to', right? Or do I need to quote the dictionary and thesaurus as well as the Bible?
he allowed us to sin in part because of free will.
But he created sin and evil. We could still have had free will without him creating these things. And if you say we can't have free will without sin then you are saying that God found it better to create evil and allow us to sin just so some of us could choose not to. Again, that's a horribly immoral thing to do to someone you profess to love.
If we couldn't sin we would be mindless perfect zombies following god.
Well in the first place he created us to give glory
In heaven, everyone is happy. But how can one be truly happy knowing loved ones will not not be joining them, but instead will be subject to fire and brimstone forever? The only way for that to work is to forfeit all your memories of Earth and say the Lord's Prayer to God forever. God basically wants humans to be his mindless slaves; don't question anything, and do what your told. Be a sheep,and the Shepard will save you.
Also if you read the verse it doesn't say he will die that day.
Yes it does.
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
right there --> "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
In heaven, everyone is happy. But how can one be truly happy knowing loved ones will not not be joining them, but instead will be subject to fire and brimstone forever? The only way for that to work is to forfeit all your memories of Earth and say the Lord's Prayer to God forever. God basically wants humans to be his mindless slaves; don't question anything, and do what your told. Be a sheep,and the Shepard will save you.
In heaven there is no pain so obviously you don't feel sad about the people you love going to Hell.
Apologetics not credible.
yeah you can say that about anything without backing it up.
The cercumstance changed at the time he told Moses he was going to the promise land and he would have. You can't say you aren't going to the promised land because you will later sin because he hadn't sinned yet.
No they didn't. God new very well that he would not allow Moses into the promised land, but he LIED to Moses and said he would. Your god is omniscient, right? That would mean he knew Moses never would. And what is the word for deliberate misinformation? LIE!
Allowing us to chose to sin and to chose whether or not to believe in him is immoral?
It is when you torture people who make choices you don't like.
The cercumstance changed at the time he told Moses he was going to the promise land and he would have. You can't say you aren't going to the promised land because you will later sin because he hadn't sinned yet.
Again, God already knew he would sin and would never reach the promised land, yet he still told Moses that he would. So God, already knowing Moses would never reach the promised land, lied to Moses.
Again, God lied. Or the Bible is wrong. Either way it brings to question the validity of the basis of the entire religion. If God truly can't lie then the Bible is not the infallible word of God and therefore its 'truth' is questionable. If the Bible is not wrong then God does lie and as such how can we know when he's telling the truth?
Allowing us to chose to sin and to chose whether or not to believe in him is immoral?
Think of every evil, sinful thing that has taken place throughout history. Now, based on your belief, all of this happened simply so we would have free will. Furthermore, God knew it would happen before he even created us. I don't know about you, but if I were a loving being and I knew crap like that would happen if I created the world I would have just stayed in Heaven with my angels and let it be. I could never watch my creation, things that I love, suffer as we humans have suffered. Nothing would be worth that. Nothing.
In heaven there is no pain so obviously you don't feel sad about the people you love going to Hell.
Sooo you lose your free will and personality?
yeah you can say that about anything without backing it up.
Isn't that what apologetics is?
How about the fact that what they say has nothing to do with a scripture, they just make excuses that make it sound OK, or how about the fact that a majority of them have different sayings for each of the same sets? In science, we would call it unreliable if several scientists did an experiment and all got highly different results...
This thread is hilarious. Makes me wanna turn religious, it's so easy to argue back and frustrate people
Very true. I spent the first half or so of my life on the other side. I was a Christian, helped teach bible study, and assisted with youth fellowship. Most of my family was very religious and many still are, being involved in leadership and missionary work. This is why I say I've already heard the arguments against my current position because I myself have made them all, as have my family members. Pastors and Ministers and several nuns and a Theologian. All family members who've I've debated religion with.
No they didn't. God new very well that he would not allow Moses into the promised land, but he LIED to Moses and said he would. Your god is omniscient, right? That would mean he knew Moses never would. And what is the word for deliberate misinformation? LIE!
No he would have lied if to Moses if he told him he would not be going to the promised land because of a sin he would later commit. If he told him that Moses would make sure he did everything very carefully as to make sure he did not sin and if he didn't sin then God telling him he would not go to the promised land would be a lie.
It is when you torture people who make choices you don't like.
It's not just choices he doesn't like it is not beleivng in him. Think of it this way you wouldn't let someone into your house if they don't even think you exist.
Think of every evil, sinful thing that has taken place throughout history. Now, based on your belief, all of this happened simply so we would have free will. Furthermore, God knew it would happen before he even created us. I don't know about you, but if I were a loving being and I knew crap like that would happen if I created the world I would have just stayed in Heaven with my angels and let it be. I could never watch my creation, things that I love, suffer as we humans have suffered. Nothing would be worth that. Nothing.
you speak of suffering as if it outways the good that happens and everyones life is dreadfully horrible. Think of the great life those suffering people may have in heaven and maybe there beleife in god even came about because of the suffering.
No you lose the want to disagree with God basicly you don't want to sin anymore. You would be like God making you perfect.
How about the fact that what they say has nothing to do with a scripture, they just make excuses that make it sound OK, or how about the fact that a majority of them have different sayings for each of the same sets? In science, we would call it unreliable if several scientists did an experiment and all got highly different results...
But this isn't an experament people just disagree on different issues just as any scientist could disagree with another.
No he would have lied if to Moses if he told him he would not be going to the promised land because of a sin he would later commit. If he told him that Moses would make sure he did everything very carefully as to make sure he did not sin and if he didn't sin then God telling him he would not go to the promised land would be a lie.
A lie is a lie is a lie is a lie, no matter what the purpose was. And besides, his "sin" was hitting a rock multiple times, even if he was walking on eggshells he would still mess up.
It's not just choices he doesn't like it is not beleivng in him. Think of it this way you wouldn't let someone into your house if they don't even think you exist.
First off, I wouldn't torture someone I allowed in my house just because they don't believe in me. Second, a closer analogy would be allowing someone into your house but not showing any evidence for yourself, and then faking evidence of the contrary, like fake shadows of other people, then finally torturing the person if they didn't believe in you. And then torturing the rest of there family for infinite generations. How is that fair again?
you speak of suffering as if it outways the good that happens and everyones life is dreadfully horrible. Think of the great life those suffering people may have in heaven and maybe there beleife in god even came about because of the suffering.
Yeah, cause the holocaust makes free will soooo worth it. Not to mention the horrible atrocities committed during the Crusades, the Inquisition, the witch trials, slavery, murder, rape, child abuse, spousal abuse, arson, the attack on the WTC (shall I continue?).
Oh, and what's this "heaven" that everyone keeps talking about? You know, it's mentioned 691 times in the KJV Bible, yet only described twice? And that's at the end of the Bible, in Revelations. So what is heaven like? Hmm? What is this place you all are trying so hard to get to?
No you lose the want to disagree with God
Yeah, you lose your free will, which is soooo important that God created evil just so we could have it while we are here on earth, yet not so important that we keep it when we get to heaven. Makes perfect sense.
No you lose the want to disagree with God basicly you don't want to sin anymore. You would be like God making you perfect.
Thus you lose your personality and free will...
But this isn't an experament people just disagree on different issues just as any scientist could disagree with another.
But you are taking these "issues" as facts. When scientist disagree on the facts, they do an experiment than etc. Youd think an omnipotent omniscient being who's followers claim to have a personal connection with him would be able to get his word out more effectively...
