Holt, do you seriously believe half the stuff your typing? Just a quick serious question..
Very true. I spent the first half or so of my life on the other side. I was a Christian, helped teach bible study, and assisted with youth fellowship. Most of my family was very religious and many still are, being involved in leadership and missionary work. This is why I say I've already heard the arguments against my current position because I myself have made them all, as have my family members. Pastors and Ministers and several nuns and a Theologian. All family members who've I've debated religion with.
Well, I can only imagine the atmosphere at Christmas time over there XD
How did you argue for it tho? did you never stop and think... what the hell am I talking about? I've never been religious, don't think I could without feeling stupid.. altho some of my family are, never brought anything up to them about it, keeping the peace XD I guess I've always been a bit of a sceptic on nearly everything, too much so to even read more than a few lines in the bible without cracking up.
A lie is a lie is a lie is a lie, no matter what the purpose was. And besides, his "sin" was hitting a rock multiple times, even if he was walking on eggshells he would still mess up.
No he did not lie I already explained how it would have been a lie if he siad the contrary. Also he disobeyed God I consider that the least God could have done.
First off, I wouldn't torture someone I allowed in my house just because they don't believe in me. Second, a closer analogy would be allowing someone into your house but not showing any evidence for yourself, and then faking evidence of the contrary, like fake shadows of other people, then finally torturing the person if they didn't believe in you. And then torturing the rest of there family for infinite generations. How is that fair again?
God has given us plenty of evedince if you chose not to look at it then that's your problem. So God has every right to have us go to Hell as we have all sinned and chosen not to beleive in God even though God has warned us that would happen.
Yeah, cause the holocaust makes free will soooo worth it. Not to mention the horrible atrocities committed during the Crusades, the Inquisition, the witch trials, slavery, murder, ****, child abuse, spousal abuse, arson, the attack on the WTC (shall I continue?).
So the contrary to the sins humans have commited is to not have us created at all? I would much rather have been created and then murdered or even tortured and still go to heaven than not be created at all. Our life on earth is relatively short so any pain we have here is greatly made up for in heaven.
Oh, and what's this "heaven" that everyone keeps talking about? You know, it's mentioned 691 times in the KJV Bible, yet only described twice? And that's at the end of the Bible, in Revelations. So what is heaven like? Hmm? What is this place you all are trying so hard to get to?
The place where we spend eternity with God and I can't imagine a better place.
Yeah, you lose your free will, which is soooo important that God created evil just so we could have it while we are here on earth, yet not so important that we keep it when we get to heaven. Makes perfect sense.
But you are taking these "issues" as facts. When scientist disagree on the facts, they do an experiment than etc. Youd think an omnipotent omniscient being who's followers claim to have a personal connection with him would be able to get his word out more effectively...
To you it may seem like he did a bad job of getting the word out there but for others including me I couldn't have thought of a better way without making the evedince so conclusive we have no choice but to beleive.
No he did not lie I already explained how it would have been a lie if he siad the contrary. Also he disobeyed God I consider that the least God could have done.
He lied. Simple as that. In fact, why didn't he say the opposite? Wouldn't he want one of his beloved chosen people to get to the promised land? And really, you are saying it is just punishment for hitting a rock incorrectly? He wasn't even trying to spite Yahweh, he just wanted to be sure its working, like you hit the on button several times on your T.V.
God has given us plenty of evedince if you chose not to look at it then that's your problem. So God has every right to have us go to Hell as we have all sinned and chosen not to beleive in God even though God has warned us that would happen.
Care to name any? And why do some people admit there is no evidence, but state you need faith? Once again, you thing Hewett would communicate better...
So the contrary to the sins humans have commited is to not have us created at all? I would much rather have been created and then murdered or even tortured and still go to heaven than not be created at all. Our life on earth is relatively short so any pain we have here is greatly made up for in heaven.
Why not just create everyone in heaven in the first place? Why put "free will" and "sin"? It doesn't make any since. And on the contrary, most people would have wished to never be "created" over eternal torture of the worst kind...
The place where we spend eternity with God and I can't imagine a better place.
Have you even read the biblical description? I think just the noise would make me evaporate if I were forced into such a hideous place! And one song, over and over and over, would make my head explode after the first week.
To you it may seem like he did a bad job of getting the word out there but for others including me I couldn't have thought of a better way without making the evedince so conclusive we have no choice but to beleive.
Yeah, a great job...Showing the account to illiterate desert dwellers in the middle east instead of someone you could rely upon, like China were more people could right, or any other place they could be better recorded?
No you lose the want to disagree with God basicly you don't want to sin anymore. You would be like God making you perfect.
Thus you lose your personality and free will...
Think of it this way, we make our decision on earth. The ones that choose Gods path go to heaven and have all lose temptation to sin, which believe me would be awesome, and those who choose not to follow God go to hell, which makes me quite distraught to be honest, but anyway anyone who might want to change there mind once they got to heaven probably wont be going to heaven anyway.
And here is a vary general stament that I'm sure a lot of you arn't going to like very much, If the bible appears to contadict itself or say something that isn't true then that is not because it is wrong it is because we are misunderstanding it or not grasping the full picture.
Think of it this way, we make our decision on earth. The ones that choose Gods path go to heaven and have all lose temptation to sin, which believe me would be awesome, and those who choose not to follow God go to hell, which makes me quite distraught to be honest, but anyway anyone who might want to change there mind once they got to heaven probably wont be going to heaven anyway.
Ohhh so he is like Stalin and Hitler!(Had to say it...) "You can choose to be with me or against me, if you are not with me than I will kill you."...Perfect resemblance.
And here is a vary general stament that I'm sure a lot of you arn't going to like very much, If the bible appears to contadict itself or say something that isn't true then that is not because it is wrong it is because we are misunderstanding it or not grasping the full picture.
Or it could be actually contradictory! Like when it gets its numbers mixed up. How exactly could that be a misunderstanding?
That sentence makes perfect since, and will tell you how to live forever, you just don't understand it enough to interpret it. No, no, it couldn't actually be wrong, take my word for it, I have been praying to the FSM for hours of this thing, I couldn't possibly be wrong...
o he did not lie I already explained how it would have been a lie if he siad the contrary.
Actually your 'explanation' is what would have been truthful, not a lie. What was done was dishonest, what you described would be honest.
God has given us plenty of evedince if you chose not to look at it then that's your problem.
Give me one piece of solid evidence as to the existence of God.
I would much rather have been created and then murdered or even tortured and still go to heaven than not be created at all.
And what about hell? Would you still be as happy with the atrocities committed in the world if you got to go to hell? After all, the overwhelming majority are going there, so really a whole bunch of people are suffering, not just now, but for eternity, so that God can have a small portion of us up there in heaven worshiping him for eternity. That doesn't sound like it was worth it to me.
The place where we spend eternity with God and I can't imagine a better place.
Really? And so what's it like there?
If the bible appears to contadict itself or say something that isn't true then that is not because it is wrong it is because we are misunderstanding it or not grasping the full picture.
You know, I can almost buy that. However there is one issue with such an idea. In such an instance as we must admit that we don't understand what it's saying, how can we then understand ANYTHING that it's saying. After all, it is the foundation of Christianity. If we can't understand it then how can we know that Christianity is right? We can't. It's just that simple. If you don't know if your first premise is correct then the rest of your position is invalid. That's just the basics of logic.
Did you guys know that there were chariots bones and soldiers armors preserver in the middle of the red sea! surely you cannot denies this the only way that these Egyptian chariots and men could have been deposited there would be the biblical red sea crossing here is conclusive evidence of a miracle!
Did you guys know that there were chariots bones and soldiers armors preserver in the middle of the red sea! surely you cannot denies this the only way that these Egyptian chariots and men could have been deposited there would be the biblical red sea crossing here is conclusive evidence of a miracle!
Ever think that it could have been the result of a naval ship sinking at sea? That happens a lot you know. Also, I found no information that dated these artifacts and until such time as a date could be established we don't even know how old they are or if they are even egyptian in origin. Simply because something points in the right direction doesn't make it a fact in support of a claim. It is pure conjecture until the source and age and cause of their placement can be verified.
As I was unable to respond to your last statement on the appropriate page I will put it here, If what you say is true about C14 than all other Radio Isotope dating methods are flawed also as this same thing could happen with other Isotope atoms as well.
To any mods, this is the last thing that I will post on the topic I don't mean to stir up trouble and I don't want to get banned.
As I was unable to respond to your last statement on the appropriate page I will put it here, If what you say is true about C14 than all other Radio Isotope dating methods are flawed also as this same thing could happen with other Isotope atoms as well.
Fine, you're right. Carbon Dating is absolutely flawed and science is completely wrong.
This still does not prove that God is behind everything. Lack of evidence is not evidence.
As I was unable to respond to your last statement on the appropriate page I will put it here, If what you say is true about C14 than all other Radio Isotope dating methods are flawed also as this same thing could happen with other Isotope atoms as well.
/facepalm
Seriously, read some science books. Go to school. Get an education. Better yet, go to a museum and ask to talk to the curator or someone. Talk to the scientists there that are in charge of the fossils and have them explain these things to you because I am done. Your logic fails, you have a pitifully limited understanding of science, and you refuse to look at any evidence which contradicts your religious beliefs. Please just stop talking to me. If you continue with your willfully ignorant and belligerent banter I fear I may become irritated. Thank you.
No he did not lie I already explained how it would have been a lie if he siad the contrary. Also he disobeyed God I consider that the least God could have done.
You analogy made no sense what so ever. All he would have had to do is say he wasn't getting in Didn't need to elaborate. But instead he lied to him saying he would get in. Yes it was a lie since he didn't get in.
Another way God could have gone about it was to state that if you sin you don't get in rather then promise he would get in. This way if he did sin he wouldn't get in just as God said, if he walked on eggshells and didn't sin and got in this would again be what God said would happen.
How is it I can come up with wording so as not to lie but God couldn't?
The place where we spend eternity with God and I can't imagine a better place.
So your idea of paradise is spending an eternity kissing Gods @$$?
To you it may seem like he did a bad job of getting the word out there but for others including me I couldn't have thought of a better way without making the evedince so conclusive we have no choice but to beleive.
So your saying having verifiable evidence is a bad thing? Even if we proved without a shadow of doubt that he existed, this would still not effect our free will to decide whether we want to follow this being or not. So your argument that he requires faith to protect free will is completely fallacious. Also if he had done a perfect job (the only type of job I would expect from a supposed perfect being) then it wouldn't seem like a bad job to anyone.
I'm agnostic, i think there is some sort of god, but not one we really know about
Think of it this way, we make our decision on earth. The ones that choose Gods path go to heaven and have all lose temptation to sin, which believe me would be awesome, and those who choose not to follow God go to hell, which makes me quite distraught to be honest, but anyway anyone who might want to change there mind once they got to heaven probably wont be going to heaven anyway.
