I have been sick since yesterday, stuck in bed all day yesterday, and have only managed to reach my computer do to the help of modern medicine. So now it is a proper time for the "Whence Commith Evil?" thread.
So were does "evil" come from? And I am not speaking for human evil, I am speaking for natural disasters, sickness, and other things that are "evil" but not caused by humans. Why would your god create that? And if it wasn't your god who created it, who was it? And why doesn't your god simply stop it? And if your god is for some reason unable to stop disease, then why can modern medicine stop what your god can't? And if your god causes it, then why can modern medicine stop it? Is medicine more powerful than your god?
actions as evil because you gain something while you hurt others, sometimes in a high or "ultimate" degree.
But sometimes then we have to do evil things. And sometimes doing something that is right might hurt the other person while u gain so it's kinda a contradiction
a man who steals the baker's bread to fill his empty belly is not evil, just hungry.
By the definition that Freakenstein gave, it could still be considered an evil action. By stealing the bread, the man makes it so the baker cannot profit quite as much as he would have, which could ultimately hurt the baker. And as one of the 10 commandments goes "thou shall not steal".
a man who steals the baker's bread to fill his empty belly is not evil, just hungry.
detrimenting others for personal gain. Evil.
But sometimes then we have to do evil things. And sometimes doing something that is right might hurt the other person while u gain so it's kinda a contradiction
It would help to have some examples. Hurting someone to help yourself that is considered right shouldn't be considered right. There are alternatives to a solution.
The bible also says it's moral to beat your wife, sell your daughter into slavery and kill your son for talking back.
Could I ask where the Bible says that? I have never seen that. In fact, ephesians 5:22-27 calls for wives to submit to their husbands but husbands to love their wives. submitting does not equal beating.
The bible also says it's moral to beat your wife, sell your daughter into slavery and kill your son for talking back.
This is why we don't, and shouldn't follow the bible, because the morals from back then seriously out-date the morals of today. Morals and alignment, however, are different. Selling your daughter into slavery and killing your son for talking back *may* have been morally acceptable back then, but it was still evil, by definition.
Nice quotes, Elite, but it would be nice to include your feelings on the subject matter as well, as it is part of the Guide to Being Successful (see sticky in current forum).
Selling your daughter into slavery and killing your son for talking back *may* have been morally acceptable back then, but it was still evil, by definition.
It probably was the norm back then. I could imagine someone on the verge of the poorhouse selling his daughter in order to make some money to survive, though it is definitely evil. As for killing sons:
18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, âThis son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.â 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Deuteronomy 21: 18-21 Based on the "glutton and a drunkard" part of this, it probably means something more like the son is a juvenile delinquent. It is extreme to kill someone over back-talking. Still, killing anyone is pretty much evil...
It must have bin there time to go. If thats how God planned it, How can we Question it?
Sorry, but I do not and will not accept this answer. If God wants someone before their time, then he should at least make it painless and quick. My friend graduated from high school with ambition. He was a smart kid. He had dreams and he was in the clear to make them. He had no troubles and was well-liked by friends, family, and acquaintances alike. If God wanted my friend to go FAR before his time by dismembering him in a car accident 2 and a half hours before his death, then I do not and will not respect him at all. If he can make my friend go peacefully, then making him die like that when he was but 18 years old makes him a sick, cruel masochist.
The priests catering to his funeral were baffled when he just up and left. "There is an explanation to everyone's death before their time and it is God's explanation. I, however, cannot find an explanation for Mat's death, no matter how hard I tried. For him to just up and go like that while full of dreams and ambition makes me question God's motives. But I must be strong, WE all must be strong, for this is clearly a test of God's will."
It must have bin there time to go. If thats how God planned it, How can we Question it?
The religious cannot question God's motives, because the religious are sheep.
i consider myself as "neutral". i have no religion. so instead of presenting an argument based on a religion, i'll give one based on science.
if we consider that what the first person described evil as: natural disasters, sickness, and things not caused by humans, then the logical explanation is nature and evolution.
Nature: it is natural to have natural disasters. ex: forest fires, if there's no rain for a few months (draught), and lightning strikes a dry forest, which then sets the forest on fire. this whole situation is based on variables that are found in nature (water, lightning, forest, etc)
Evolution: sickness comes from viruses and bacteria. these two things are just lifeforms that have evolved differently. all creatures and plants are lifeforms that have changed over time to find a way to survive. "sickness" is just a way for those bacteria to survive.
It would help to have some examples. Hurting someone to help yourself that is considered right shouldn't be considered right. There are alternatives to a solution.
What about when you punish someone for a crime? your hurting them by sending them to jail and you become more powerful in the eyes of the law and stature.
i consider myself as "neutral". i have no religion. so instead of presenting an argument based on a religion, i'll give one based on science.
That's odd, I never heard anyone use neutral before. Is this based on agnostic or atheistic background?
if we consider that what the first person described evil as: natural disasters, sickness, and things not caused by humans, then the logical explanation is nature and evolution.
Yes, that would be the most logical and right explanation, right? Well it is! However, there are those that throw in "it was his time and God needed him" for some reason. It just baffles me that people use this explanation versus the logical, objective, natural way. If a man dies in a fire and a priest says "God decided it was his time", he is saying "God killed him in a fire". We also decide when it is other peoples' time to go when we shoot them, poison them, and *insert the other thousand ways to die here*. You see what I'm getting at here? If God is deciding someone's time to go bye-bye via exaggerated mayhem, then that absolves him of his seemingly-benevolent nature.
"God killed him in a fire". We also decide when it is other peoples' time to go when we shoot them, poison them, and *insert the other thousand ways to die here*. You see what I'm getting at here? If God is deciding someone's time to go bye-bye via exaggerated mayhem, then that absolves him of his seemingly-benevolent nature.
ORRRRR maybe god ment for that fire to happen but there too many darn people in the way so he HAD to do it at that time. you see where i'm getting at? like maybe a buisness building was supposed to be there instead of the apartment building?
What about when you punish someone for a crime? your hurting them by sending them to jail and you become more powerful in the eyes of the law and stature.
It's an evil act, sure, but that can't be considered "ersonal gain", since no one man upholds the law. You could interpret it differently by saying you're protecting everyone else by isolating him. You could be doing good to the criminal by isolating him. Then we can say if you're doing a good act for personal gain, that can be considered corruption. A good act for nothing in return is altruistic. You're taking time out of your day to isolate a dangerous criminal.
ORRRRR maybe god ment for that fire to happen but there too many darn people in the way so he HAD to do it at that time. you see where i'm getting at? like maybe a buisness building was supposed to be there instead of the apartment building?
So God's omnipotence was so powerful that he had to burn someone alive instead of kindly putting them to sleep? If he *meant* for that fire to happen, then he *meant* to burn someone alive!
Without evil, there would be a utopia, free from misery, menevolent gods, and the evil emotions or actions, where everyone was either don't-get-involved neutral or detrimenting-yourself-for-the-gain-of-others good. Kinda like Heaven, only without the god part.
