I do not know if this Topic has already came about, but, just in case it hasn't...
Anything Religious?
-Have a question? Ill try to explian it to the best of my ability! -Have a debate? Ill be glad to converse with you! -Have anything you wanna talk about? Just come on down!
Not necessarily.. and that is why we are perfect! Its sorta like a paradox but we are perfect because we can choice to do wrong.
Yes but if we were perfect we wouldn't choose to do wrong. That's the point. Even if we were free to do so we wouldn't, because of being perfect. If we weren't perfect with free will then we could and likely would make bad choices.
But in the eyes of God, perfect is just doing HIS will, and even if you do sin, or make a bad choice, you have the opportunity to come back to God.
Considering what the first sin was, by this standard we couldn't have been perfect.
Being in a state of perfection negates the possibility of making bad choices. So if we did make a bad choice then we couldn't have been perfect, as doing so negates that possibility of such a state.
Bottom line is the gifts of free will and intelligence that God gave us. That is the answer to all of this. By giving us these things, God made us perfect. And that means that God is perfect.
No it's not the answer to all of this. It doesn't even address the issue.
I agree.. we can't be perfect.. physically or mentally. But spirirtually we ARE perfect. Through out a scenario of how we are imperfect
No being imperfect doesn't make us perfect. If we are spiritually perfect and all that's left after we die is the spirit, then there is no need for hell.
No it's not the answer to all of this. It doesn't even address the issue.
It is the answer. You believe that God and humans are imperfect. Im TELLING you that your incorrect. God is perfect because he gave us the ability to CHOOSE to do good.. and if we do bad, then WE are held accountable for OUR ations. It was nothing to do with God and he created has. Actually it does, but it doesn't connect to the facted that he made us imperfect. He made us perfect, it is us who CHOOSE to do wrong things. And guess why we can do those wrong things, you got it, free will.
then there is no need for hell.
Now with that statement, I somewhat agree with you. I don't believe in hell. So.. I can't say anything
@Cincinnatus, Mage's point is that a perfect being wouldn't have any desire to do evil, even if he/she was capable of doing so. Yet there are many humans who can hurt others, steal, etc., with no remorse, and some even enjoy doing so.
Also, if he truly created humans to be perfect, where do mental handicaps come from? What purpose could, for example, the Downs Syndrome serve, if it was not an accident? And if it was an accident, then he must've made a mistake with the design somewhere.
Free will doesn't even truly exist in the way you think... we are too much influenced by our surrounding since birth (especially the time from birth until adulthood) to really be able to look at this world objectively. How does it make sense that a god creates a perfect soul, put it in imperfect bodies who live in an imperfect world, if he anyway calls us back to heaven after that? What do we get from this passage, if we loose our imperfection (our earthly life and it's experiences) after death? Why did he even create it, when he could have simply create our souls and put them in heaven directly?
God is perfect because he gave us the ability to CHOOSE to do good.. and if we do bad, then WE are held accountable for OUR ations.
The whole point of my argument is that if we were perfect we wouldn't CHOOSE to do bad. So the point that we did negates the possibility of us being perfect.
free will+imperfection= Likely to choose to do bad i.e. sin. free will+perfection= Won't choose to do bad i.e. sin.
So free will doesn't answer the question of how we could have possibly have sinned and been perfect, as a perfect being wouldn't sin even if the choice was available. The only possible answer would be that we were not perfect to begin with. As such this would either mean God intended us to be imperfect or God is not perfect himself.
free will+perfection= Won't choose to do bad i.e. sin.
[quote]How is as choosing to NOT do bad a sin?
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You said that your god made us so that humans have free will and we are perfect. He is saying, that if we have free will and perfection, then why is there sin.
Im Muslim and I belive that Allah is the only god and Muhammad is his messenger. But muslims also believe in Jesus and Moses (and Jacob, and Abarham, and much more)
