I do not know if this Topic has already came about, but, just in case it hasn't...
Anything Religious?
-Have a question? Ill try to explian it to the best of my ability! -Have a debate? Ill be glad to converse with you! -Have anything you wanna talk about? Just come on down!
God is perfect and cannot carry blame? We'll see to that..
How about the story of Noah's ark? Let's not talk about the impossible flood-and-repopulation-after-the-flood part, but rather about the reasons why there was one at all. If I remember well, God didn't like how humanity had developed and strayed away from his teachings, and ordered Noah, one of his few followers left, to gather his family and a pair of each animal on an ark, because god was going to drown the rest of earth. He killed probably 95% of all life on earth, including all animals, plants and fungi that had absolutely nothing to do with that all. What could he have done instead, I ask? Humanity was bad partly because they didn't believe in him anymore; why shouldn't they have? The only thing that told them about him were other mortal people with thick story books. Was it really necessary to drown them? Couldn't he have given humanity an irreproachable sign of his existence?
Now is the part when united christianity roars the two powerful words: FREE WILL!!
Well, I'll tell you what. He could have made an exception and only for once go against the holy free will (that seems to be more powerful even than himself) and lead them back to the correct path. They would see that there is a god and that it is finally not all just a lie. Humanity would have been consequently healed and they could have gone to heaven. But instead, he decided, "Well I can't let them live with the knowledge of my existence, this would be inhuman and ammoral; so I have to kill them all, even if that means throwing them all in the pits of hell and killing most of my other innocent creations as well". Thus he thought, thus he did.
On the point of free will and God. In the Bible god does mess with free will, usually to create opposition between people. One classic example of this is with the Pharaoh in the story of Moses It was God who hardened the Pharaohs heart preventing him from being swayed by Moses to let everyone go.
Exodus 7:1-4 (NIV) Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. You are to say everything I command you, and your brother Aaron is to tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go out of his country. But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in Egypt, he will not listen to you. Then I will lay my hand on Egypt and with mighty acts of judgment I will bring out my divisions, my people the Israelites.
I don't think it's useful to argue the motives of an omnipotent being. I will not join in the argument over whether a god does or doesn't exist. But if a god does exist, it would be impossible to comprehend it's motives. The same way humans cannot comprehend things that exist in 4 dimensions.
But if a god does exist, it would be impossible to comprehend it's motives. The same way humans cannot comprehend things that exist in 4 dimensions.
That only holds true if the motives are too complex for humans. If, for example, God spontaneously created a bowl of nachos because he was simply in the mood to eat nachos, we could comprehend that. If, however, the bowl of nachos served a higher purpose we couldn't grasp, we obviously couldn't comprehend it. God's motives would not be limited purely to that incomprehensible to us, just as shapes existing in a 4th-dimension realm are not all 4-dimensional - the presence of a hypercube would not preclude the existence of a square.
or consider what you claim to be god is just the fifth dimesion brushing against ours?
The fifth dimension wouldn't be any sort of sentient thing, just another axis. It would be like worshiping the Y axis as the true Messiah. Also, I wasn't arguing for or against the existence of a deity, just pointing that out >_>
The fifth dimension wouldn't be any sort of sentient thing, just another axis. It would be like worshiping the Y axis as the true Messiah. Also, I wasn't arguing for or against the existence of a deity, just pointing that out >_>
They did still die. Before the fall, they might have lived forever, but after, they were now completely mortal.
Where does it say they were immortal before hand, and if they were why would god have a conniption over them regaining that status?
and this also means that the snake DID lie. he said that they wouldn't die if they ate the fruit, but they did.
This is saying they will surely die then I go on to live an extremely long life. The only argument put forth being they were immortal before hand which is never alluded too, making that just something to explain a blatant contradiction here. Also it was suppose to be the day they ate the fruit.
It never says that. Genesis 2:17 (KJV) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Hebrew source (bolded in above) ki yom akal min muth
ki; that, for, when yom; day akal; to eat min or minni or minne; from muth; die
They may not have died by human standards, but they did die in God's spiritual standards.
I'm pretty sure that's called moving the goal post. How is it you can claim to know what God's standards are? Also if God was trying to communicate a concept to a human, why would he use a standard that is foreign rather then one that is understood. Using a foreign concept to communicate would be a failure to properly communicate, Something I wouldn't expect from a supposed perfect being.
We can not understand God. It is like how a 2 year old gets angry when his parents tell him not to play in the street. He doesn't know any better, but his parents do. We are like a 2-year-old and God is our parent, and even though we don't understand why He does things or even how, we just have to trust that He knows best.
We can not understand God. It is like how a 2 year old gets angry when his parents tell him not to play in the street. He doesn't know any better, but his parents do. We are like a 2-year-old and God is our parent, and even though we don't understand why He does things or even how, we just have to trust that He knows best.
Yeah and If I saw my 2year old kid running into the street I would stop them. I wouldn't just throw up my hands and say "well he needs to have his free will." Also if I was going to explain something to a 2 year old I would use terms and concepts that would be at his understanding not concepts that are foreign to them. If I did use a term that was foreign to them I would elaborate so they could understand. As I said using foreign concepts would be a failure on Gods part to properly communicate to us. Not to mention the issues of God putting all this in place so that his "2 year olds" could get into serious trouble to begin with is just bad parenting.
There is no free will there is only free unwill. Now just like you I'm going to back my statement with as much evidence as possible Yay! [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will] [url=http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/28/fate-vs-free-will-in-the-adjustment-bureau/?hpt=Sbin] [url=http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/02/18/129375622/free-will] [url=http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill [url=http://www.science20.com/hammock_physicist/gravity_free_will-76494]
Not to mention the issues of God putting all this in place so that his "2 year olds" could get into serious trouble to begin with is just bad parenting.
Maybe God isn't perfect. Maybe he is a super human?
