It's funny how your almost never born atheist, you become atheist. I personally think the whole religion thing is far fetched. Why cant we just be dead after we die? Why does there HAVE to be an afterlife? Dont get me wrong i respect others decisions, I just don't believe in it, who's with me? I'm going to be some grass fertilizer one day And home to some maggots + worms.
Do you have any proof that God actually told them to exterminate jews? No. Just because I say I'm going to perform an action "in the name of God" does not mean that he actually approves of my actions.
Do you have any proof about anything you are saying? Besides the fact that it is written in a book? Hitler said it was in the name of god and people believed him. Just like you believe what your reading from the bible or learning in church.
Making a quick side Note here. I looked back at the first post of this thread I think we have swayed from the main point and are going for each others throats as we battle out what is better Religion or Atheism. There seems to be no true attempt to help the opposing party see the truth nor does it seem that the two parties are truly ( I mean in actual thought not just in word) open minded to maybe see the other point of view maybe right. There only seems to be bashing for the sake of bashing upon the ground of each individual's experience.
Can we not all just try to post in order to explain through objective means. Not by slashing each post to bits as one sees fit.
Oremoose just asked for no religion bashing. You are so caught up with disrespecting religion that you don't seem to care about what the actual public thinks about this argument.
Do you have proof of god?
And yes god did, he razed two cities to the ground just because he didn't like them. At the very least, god is petty and has the emotional breadth of a teething toddler.
Yeah, I do. My family lives a happy life, not because we are rich, but because we have each other. If it wasn't for God, many of my relatives would have killed themselves of, and I know this because they told me. I knew an headstrong Atheist who's life was saved miraculously, and he now believes in the Lord.
Going back to God as an analogy to being parents, then it would be more like growing up and moving out instead of continuing to live in mom and dads basement the rest of our lives.
Don't you call your parents for advice every once in awhile? That's the same relationship with God.
Even the infants were wicked, or did these two cities have 0% population growth? Also were the livestock of these two cities wicked as well?
Considering that the infants would have become wicked from living in either city, they could be considered wicked. Animals were created to help man. It says it in Genesis: 2:18-19. Considering that livestock were present in other areas of the region, killing the livestock in the cities would not have an effect on anything.
Do you have any proof about anything you are saying? Besides the fact that it is written in a book? Hitler said it was in the name of god and people believed him. Just like you believe what your reading from the bible or learning in church.
Hitler used economic hardships to rise to power. Who else was there to believe besides him? C'mon lets use reasoning here.
Easier, but haven't we already made that conjecture ourselves? C'mon we don't need things like that spoonfeeded to us....
As a parent I teach my children things all the time without making them suffer through them first. I don't place my children's hands on a hot stove so they learn not to touch it, I tell them that it's hot and it will hurt precisely so they DON'T have to experience the pain to learn their lesson. God could have done such a thing with evil and sin so that none of us need to be punished, yet he did no such thing.
God could have done such a thing with evil and sin so that none of us need to be punished, yet he did no such thing.
inb4 garden of eden
And also, on a different note, this is not necessary a good thing in itself (or rather, can you justify why this is good in itself?).
There seems to be no true attempt to help the opposing party see the truth nor does it seem that the two parties are truly ( I mean in actual thought not just in word) open minded to maybe see the other point of view maybe right.
OK - if that's what you want, then I'll put forth the argument.
God's existence is meaningless. He does not dictate morality, even if He does exist, because there is no reason for him to embrace so-called "virtues" and **** so-called "evils" without them already being virtuous and evil in the first place. God's existence does not preclude the existence of evolution. Evolution must exist whether God exists or not, because it is deductively sound (evolution in the changing of the gene pool over time).
God could have done such a thing with evil and sin so that none of us need to be punished, yet he did no such thing.
Genesis Chapter 2, verses 16-17 "And the LORD GOD commanded the man. "You are free to eat from any three in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for if you eat of it you will surely die."
God's existence is meaningless. He does not dictate morality
It is God's nature which defines what is good, or to use your own words, moral. Ergo, the opposite of God's nature would be evil.
Evolution must exist whether God exists or not, because it is deductively sound (evolution in the changing of the gene pool over time).
Evolution cannot exist if God exist. This is similar to the Day-Age Theory/Theistic Evolution. If Evolution occurs over time, and God made everything, and God saw that it was good, than God says that death and violence and killing is good.
God DID NOT make death and violence and killing good, and since God made all that was good, than this process that supposedly allows evolution to occur can never happen.
I'll try not to bash so hard, I apologize. But at the same time I have not heard a compelling argument from any of you proving his existence.
Yeah, I do. My family lives a happy life, not because we are rich, but because we have each other. If it wasn't for God, many of my relatives would have killed themselves of, and I know this because they told me. I knew an headstrong Atheist who's life was saved miraculously, and he now believes in the Lord.
This is no way proves he is real. I don't even know how you see this as proof that god exists.
God DID NOT make death and violence and killing good, and since God made all that was good, than this process that supposedly allows evolution to occur can never happen.
Uhmm, but it does happen? There is actually scientific proof proving evolution is real, whereas no proof there is a god.
Uhmm, but it does happen? There is actually scientific proof proving evolution is real, whereas no proof there is a god.
How can you be so critical of a faith when you clearly have no knowledge of it? Lucifer, in the form of a snake, seduced man (Adam) into partaking of the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and sin entered into the world.
And the only 'roof' for evolution I've seen is really just over-hyped speciation. And speciation would happen in a Biblical Worldview. The flood would have decreased the amount of species to a very small number, and speciation would account today for the large numbers of species we see today.
And thus, God cannot exist under this condition - it is impossible.
It is God's nature which defines what is good, or to use your own words, moral. Ergo, the opposite of God's nature would be evil.
So without God, morality does not / cannot exist?? It seems as though the existence of morality is independent of God's existence, and thus the problem results...
God exists, however, is a total petty jackhole who intervenes in human affairs solely for his own personal amusement.
This is basically being a deist.
Uhmm, but it does happen? There is actually scientific proof proving evolution is real, whereas no proof there is a god.
I have said before in another thread, "There is no belief that is 100% proven. There are obviously holes in every religion. This is why any belief requires at least a small amount of faith in oneself." Whether that the is or isn't a god
Oremoose just asked for no religion bashing. You are so caught up with disrespecting religion that you don't seem to care about what the actual public thinks about this argument.
That wasn't a bash, that was a legitimate question. Since it seems religion is all based on non objective views I have to wonder if it can be objective with such a basis.
Don't you call your parents for advice every once in awhile? That's the same relationship with God.
When they were alive yes I did, though it's nothing like the relationship with God as such a relationship includes living under Gods rules. Something you don't have if you move out of your parents place. You are also not punished by your parents for not taking their advice as you are with God.
Considering that the infants would have become wicked from living in either city, they could be considered wicked.
So your really claiming the infants were wicked and deserved to die?
Considering that livestock were present in other areas of the region, killing the livestock in the cities would not have an effect on anything.
Guess animal cruelty laws are pointless.
Even after statements like those I bet your still wondering why I find this religion to be a bit on the sick side.
And the only 'roof' for evolution I've seen is really just over-hyped speciation. And speciation would happen in a Biblical Worldview. The flood would have decreased the amount of species to a very small number, and speciation would account today for the large numbers of species we see today.
OK - Evolution proof:
1) There will be genetic variation within a population. 2) There is inheritance within a population, in which the offspring inherit traits from their parents. 3) There will be certain traits that benefit survival and reproduction more than other traits. 4) Over time, we can observe traits that benefit survival and reproduction to be more common than other traits, as these traits directly increase the chance that these traits will be passed on to offspring.
Thus, evolution is true AND independent of God's existence.
