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PracticalManiac
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PracticalManiac
295 posts
Peasant

I was just about to go to sleep so I was taking my nightly dump where I do a lot of reflecting.

I started a thread a couple days ago called about atheism and it started a debate. I myself am a die hard atheist but I was just wondering is religion even all that bad?

I mean maybe some people just need that cushion, maybe they cant accept their fates? I would like to hear from you why religion is so bad. Is it halting progression? Is it dumbing us down, what do you have to say?

  • 296 Replies
Ovidius
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Ovidius
27 posts
Nomad

Have fun in Hell.

Certainly, very mature and high of you.
thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

Translation: I am getting my as s handed to me in this debate by atheists, so I am gonna leave because they are asking questions I can't answer.


I can't answer their questions. I've only been saved since two years. Besides, they're basing their questions on matters of opinion, which does not hold water in a debate. They have no facts
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Sorry to the people above: I didn't know I was going to get personally attacked by atheists. I can attack your nonbelief just as easy, but I'm going to take the high road and bow out of this conversation. Have fun in Hell.


Go right ahead, though I hardly call an idol threat the high road. And it's been more your belief rather then you that's gotten trampled. Mostly by actual evidence by the looks of things.

Though if I do end up in hell I'm bringing the weenies for the BBQ. Who's with me?

Everyone in this forum needs to read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel


I'm well aware of what he has published and it's a complete load. It's full of fallacies.
thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?


God is definitely able, but we as humans create evil. When Adam and Eve released original sin, God knew that they made that choice to sin. We make the choice, because God granted us free will. We have to prove ourselves worthy and pure to enter his Kingdom. There is also Satan, who guides us to sin. God refuses to stop us from sinning because He wants us to be tested. We have to pass the test to enter Heaven. This is where Jesus comes in. He was brutalized and killed on the Crucifix to absolve of all of humanity's sins, so that whoever believes in him may enter heaven. John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

We have to believe in Jesus to be saved. He died for our sins. The one human being without sin was the ultimate sacrifice

I beg anyone who actually wants info to real Lee Strobel's line of books.
thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

God made Satan. God made man yet let him sin. And we do not have free will. Jonah and the whale spring to mind. Jonah made the decision not to answer god's calling, using his free will, yet god stopped him.


Satan was an angel that was God's second in command, but he thought that he was as powerful as God and God cast him out of heaven and 1/3 of the angels followed him. God didn't make satan evil.
As far as Jonah and the whale goes, I haven't read that story yet, so I can't honestly answer to that.
Nurvana
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Nurvana
2,520 posts
Farmer

[quote] idol

Idle..?

Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

As far as Jonah and the whale goes, I haven't read that story yet, so I can't honestly answer to that.


In a nutshell...God asks Jonah to do something for him, Jonah is scared and tries to run away by sailing across the sea, where god gets mad and makes a giant storm and Jonah goes overboard, then a whale eats Jonah and he lives in the whales stomach for awhile...Pinochio or however you spell it if you want a visual, and Jonah isn't let out of the whale until he agrees to follow god's wishes, where upon once he does the whale pukes him up onto the shore where he originally departed from.
thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

In a nutshell...God asks Jonah to do something for him, Jonah is scared and tries to run away by sailing across the sea, where god gets mad and makes a giant storm and Jonah goes overboard, then a whale eats Jonah and he lives in the whales stomach for awhile...Pinochio or however you spell it if you want a visual, and Jonah isn't let out of the whale until he agrees to follow god's wishes, where upon once he does the whale pukes him up onto the shore where he originally departed from.


That's not it at all. Perhaps you misread. Jonah says no to God, so he sends a storm. Jonah makes the sacrifice for the other sailors so they throw him overboard. God provided the whale so Jonah didn't drown. He stayed in the whale for 3 days until being puked up on dry land. I just read it
thepyro222
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thepyro222
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Peasant

God made Lucifer, not Satan. (Satan is Hebrew for enemy, Lucifer is the dawn star, the light bringer)
As for being cast out, it was for asking why the son of the ***** of Bethlehem was to be made king of heaven.

Either way, God made Lucifer and made him evil, for is not god all powerful?


In Isiah 14:12, Lucifer says this
"I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High."
thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

But god still sent the storm in an attempt to subvert Jonah's free will.


Jonah disobeyed God, in the old testament, God was more direct with his wrath. When you tell your daddy no, you're going to go to time out, or get a spanking. We are God's children, and sometimes, we need to be punished for direct rebellion of God
thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

Using free will always has consequences. If I go out and kill someone, I go to jail. If I disobey my father, I get in trouble. I still have the free will to do it, but there are always consequences. I need to find it, but there is a passage in the Gospels where Jesus preaches about submitting to authority.

thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

Similar, but not the exact passage. There are two codes to follow as Christians: Love God and Love your neighbor. Even if you are a slave, you should love and respect your master, because it is what is going to make him like you and set you free. Even though Jesus was being savaged by the Romans, he still said "Forgive them father, they know not what they do." he still loved them
And to add to the Jonah case: our number one priority as Christians is to spread the word. the same with the Jewish before Jesus. So Jonah was wrong. Not God. You seem to have a lot of knowledge about the bible. Are you yourself a Christian, or were one?

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

God is definitely able, but we as humans create evil. When Adam and Eve released original sin, God knew that they made that choice to sin. We make the choice, because God granted us free will.


The God is unwilling. Free will is an extremely poor excuse not to act in favor of something you care for. If you saw a child going for a loaded gun would you try and stop them or would you just throw up your hands and say "well it's his free will"? Of course you would try and stop the child, anyone who care for that kid would.
On top of all this God has interfered with free will on a number of occasions in the Bible. So him not doing it to Adam and Eves benefit is no excuse.

Oh an on that we create evil, got to wonder what an all loving good God is doing sending evil spirits to someone.
Judges 9:23 (NIV)
God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, who acted treacherously against Abimelech.
1 Samuel 16:14 (NIV)
Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

Yeah a God who sends evil spirits to screw with people. That sure sounds like a God I would want worship out of love and respect.... >_>

This is where Jesus comes in. He was brutalized and killed on the Crucifix to absolve of all of humanity's sins, so that whoever believes in him may enter heaven. John 3:16
[quote]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
[/quote]

Sent his only son to be brutalized and killed? That's a pretty sick, twisted, and barbaric way to show love. Also the gesture alone makes no sense what so ever. If he wanted to forgive us for these sins that someone else did then he could have just said "your forgiven", no need to have anyone die.


We have to believe in Jesus to be saved. He died for our sins. The one human being without sin was the ultimate sacrifice


What point is there to have a sacrifice at all? "What does God need with a sacrifice?"-paraphrased Kirk.


I beg anyone who actually wants info to real Lee Strobel's line of books.


Like I said Lee Strobel is full of crap. So toting him is not helping your case at all.

If you guys don't believe me that he's full of the smelly brown stuff, see for yourself.

The Case for a Creator (Chapter 1 of 10)
The Case for a Creator (Chapter 2 of 10)
The Case for a Creator (Chapter 3 of 10)
The Case for a Creator (Chapter 4 of 10)
The Case for a Creator (Chapter 5 of 10)
The Case for a Creator (Chapter 6 of 10)
The Case for a Creator (Chapter 7 of 10)
The Case for a Creator (Chapter 8 of 10)
The Case for a Creator (Chapter 9 of 10)
The Case for a Creator (Chapter 10 of 10)

A review of the book.
http://www.bidstrup.com/apologetics.htm

Along with wiki pages on Strobel and the reviewer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Strobel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Bidstrup

And if you want to make watching worth while, feel free to play bingo. I have two versions you can use.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/idbingocard2xt5.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/bingo1.gif
michael96412
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michael96412
85 posts
Farmer

being an athiest is the best thing.

Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

Religion has some good sides, but the bad sides shouldn't arise anyway.
Damage by extremist religious people is insane.
Halting progression significantly, it held us down in the Dark Ages for 800 years.
It allows blindness and a lack of depth in character.
It also allows laziness in that you do not need to make choices for yourself.

- H

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