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PracticalManiac
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PracticalManiac
295 posts
Peasant

I was just about to go to sleep so I was taking my nightly dump where I do a lot of reflecting.

I started a thread a couple days ago called about atheism and it started a debate. I myself am a die hard atheist but I was just wondering is religion even all that bad?

I mean maybe some people just need that cushion, maybe they cant accept their fates? I would like to hear from you why religion is so bad. Is it halting progression? Is it dumbing us down, what do you have to say?

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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

You want to talk about logical fallacies? I'm coming at you with facts and information according to the Bible

EL OH EL!

Sorry to burst your bubble those are not facts or in any way proven.

God sent evil spirits to punish people, and Jesus was crucified so that we can enter Heaven. God himself put on skin, lived a sinless life, and died to bear the weight of all of our sins

Oh man you really proved your point with these "facts" let me tell ya! I mean the bible says it's true and I don't want to go to hell so I'm not going to question it for a second. It must be real!

The bible has been proven historically correct as it coincides with other historical documents, as said in Lee Strobel's book "A Case for Christ"

I'm going to make some documents about myself that say I am an almighty being with crazy unrealistic stories. It must be true in the future because my documents say so!


Every thing you said is completely based on opinion. can you prove the bible is not true?
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

You are ignoring centuries of scientific, logical, and historical facts. I am ignoring a book full of so many holes that a shotgun could not reproduce such an effect. Who is being closed minded?

You are ignoring plenty of evidence that proves the bible, including other documents from that time period that have different accounts of the same story.


What evidence? Sources? Aside from that one you've already listed? I've never read it, but i'm sure someone here has and can point out the numerous inborn holes.

He shows his love by killing? Read the OT, by yourself without the peer pressure and emotional appeal of the church and see how much of that "Love" you see... And he must love me, why else would he torture me forever once I die?

Because you don't believe in him. Why should he show you any compassion and love even though you are convinced that he doesn't even exist?


Great. We've established that God is vindictive and doesn't love everyone regardless of what they do. If he really loved everyone, why couldn't he just say once you die, "Here I am, I do exist, you were wrong/a nonbeliever, do you accept that i'm real now?" "Yes" "Alright welcome to heaven!"

The evidence against God has very many holes as well.


The only holes in the evidence against god is that there's no evidence for him to poke holes in.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

The only holes in the evidence against god is that there's no evidence for him to poke holes in.


Rephrasing for clarity.

The only holes in the evidence agaisnt god is that there's no evidence for god to poke holes into.
PracticalManiac
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PracticalManiac
295 posts
Peasant

Hows about how almost everything in it is freaking impossible? Are you blind? Just to name one thing evolution completely obliterates the bible and evolution is proven. And I was just disproving your statements with logical scenarios.

314d1
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314d1
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Nomad

Proof?


Historical accounts, hieroglyphics, lack of large army in the lake, the fact that the pyramids where never used as food storage, the fact that there is no record of seven plagues and the fact that one of the orders was to get the cattle inside, even though another plague had killed all the cattle. And even then, the burden on proof means you must prove it, not me disproving it.

I really wish I had this answer for you, but I don't. I can only say that this was the way God has done it for years, and that's what needed to be fulfilled.


That made no since. Why couldn't he just change the law? Why was it a prophesy in the first place? Why did he make the law in the first place, if he knew this would be the outcome? If you don't know the answers, than doesn't that mean that if this Yahweh existed he would be sadistic?

Let's keep this a professional debate, personal attacks are so immature


Yahweh admits to liking the smell of burnt flesh, and you stated that he wanted blood. How is this a personal attack? And I always thought that lambs, to be more specific, where used, mostly do to referencing as "Sacrificial lamb".

Again, I wish I had this answer for you, but I don't. This was just God's law.


So once again this god is showing himself to be an illogical psychopath?

You are ignoring plenty of evidence that proves the bible, including other documents from that time period that have different accounts of the same story.


The same story. Minus the god parts. Don't you find that strange? By this same logic, do to the fact that there was a battle of Troy, the Greek gods must exist.

Because you don't believe in him. Why should he show you any compassion and love even though you are convinced that he doesn't even exist?


Because he apparently loves me? Why doesn't he just bring me into heaven and say "Haha, you where wrong! Now lets grab a beer and start partying!"? I would believe in him if he showed him himself in such a manner, to everyone. So why doesn't he, rather than torturing us?

I can't answer all of your questions, and I have done the research


These are simple questions of logic. Why are they so hard to think of? Why doesn't he just speak to you, if your prayer works?

Trust me.


Science doesn't work that way.

The evidence against God has very many holes as well.


Examples, please? And why do you continuously call Yahweh "God"?

Like I said, I still have questions, but I have found a lot more evidence FOR God rather than against him.


More examples please.
PracticalManiac
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PracticalManiac
295 posts
Peasant

I don't know how many facts we can throw at you and you just counter with excerpts from the bible. I have said this before and I will say it again. Excerpts from the bible are in no way shape or form considered evidence or facts. If you have logical proof of gods existence and logical proof that what the bible says is true by all means spill the beans.

thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

What evidence? Sources? Aside from that one you've already listed? I've never read it, but i'm sure someone here has and can point out the numerous inborn holes.

There is plenty of evidence out there. You just have to look for it, when you provide me evidence against God, then I will provide you with evidence for him.

Great. We've established that God is vindictive and doesn't love everyone regardless of what they do. If he really loved everyone, why couldn't he just say once you die, "Here I am, I do exist, you were wrong/a nonbeliever, do you accept that i'm real now?" "Yes" "Alright welcome to heaven!"

Because to enter Heaven, you have to pass a test. That test is life. There are two things that you have to do to enter heaven. Love god and love your neighbor. That's all that Christ asks. If you don't love God in life and pass the test, with temptations, false evidence, and false Gods, then why should he let you in his home?
PracticalManiac
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PracticalManiac
295 posts
Peasant

There is plenty of evidence out there. You just have to look for it, when you provide me evidence against God, then I will provide you with evidence for him.


Here is my evidence. Science. Ok now prove to me that god is real
Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

What evidence? Sources? Aside from that one you've already listed? I've never read it, but i'm sure someone here has and can point out the numerous inborn holes.

There is plenty of evidence out there. You just have to look for it, when you provide me evidence against God, then I will provide you with evidence for him.


See, here's the thing. How do you provide evidence against something that there's absolutely no trace of? The only way is to actually find out how everything happened. So, now, 2000 years later, we find that almost everything in the bible is superstition, exaggeration, or just plain impossible or nonsensicle, and all any logical person in a debate about this who is a beleiver is say "That is how god works." The only problem with all of this is that the bible specifically states how, in what order, who, and why stuff happens...but it's been torn to shreds. So all we're left with is the non-believer saying "There's no evidence AT ALL for it" and the believer saying "Look around, it's everywhere," with no "actual" proof, other than saying that everything that's discovered against the said religion is how it actually is, and "forgets" that they ever argued differently.
thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

I don't know how many facts we can throw at you and you just counter with excerpts from the bible. I have said this before and I will say it again. Excerpts from the bible are in no way shape or form considered evidence or facts. If you have logical proof of gods existence and logical proof that what the bible says is true by all means spill the beans.


There is plenty of stuff out there that makes no since to me. Let's take a classic example: the Big bang. A massive super- explosion that is said to have created the entire universe. Well, who created the Big Bang? And for the Big bang to have happened, then just by some slight chance, this planet is at the exact distance from the sun, the exact shape it needs to be, with the exact elements that we need to survive, with exact climates, etc. You're going to tell me that just kind of... happened? MAJOR HOLE. Look at human beings. We are extremely intricate creatures with complicated systems for running this complex machine we call a body. From the circulatory to the very DNA. You're going to tell me this happened, but how? There had to be a creator, anything else just makes no sense. And if there is a creator, and we are his creation, He's going to want us to act a certain way. Well, the old way didn't work, so he started over again with Noah and the flood, but people still were sinners, so he sent his son to teach us how to live, and to make sure we could get into Heaven no matter what, he had his son bear the weight of our sins upon the cross to take our punishment.
314d1
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314d1
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Nomad

There is plenty of evidence out there. You just have to look for it, when you provide me evidence against God, then I will provide you with evidence for him.


Do I have to tell you about the burden of proof again?

Because to enter Heaven, you have to pass a test.


...Why?

There are two things that you have to do to enter heaven. Love god and love your neighbor


Wait... I thought you had to believe in Jejub, and nothing else?

That's all that Christ asks. If you don't love God in life and pass the test, with temptations, false evidence, and false Gods, then why should he let you in his home?


Because he loves me? He put all those in my way, knowing that I would "Fail" this idiotic test but for some reason continues to create people destined only for hell fire?

It is like you are sitting in your house, waiting for your wife. If she fails a ridicules test, like not stepping on a crack, then you don't let her in. But you love her, so why wouldn't you let her in? Change the rules to allow her entry? Tell her about the rules before hand?
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Anyways we're drifting off subject.

Back to the OP. I don't think that religion is "bad." I don't believe in it, but so long as it doesn't involve sacrificing, murdering for glory in the afterlife, or loss of freedoms I say go for it. However, most religions do take away one or more of those...so in general not so much.

thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

See, here's the thing. How do you provide evidence against something that there's absolutely no trace of? The only way is to actually find out how everything happened. So, now, 2000 years later, we find that almost everything in the bible is superstition, exaggeration, or just plain impossible or nonsensicle, and all any logical person in a debate about this who is a beleiver is say "That is how god works." The only problem with all of this is that the bible specifically states how, in what order, who, and why stuff happens...but it's been torn to shreds. So all we're left with is the non-believer saying "There's no evidence AT ALL for it" and the believer saying "Look around, it's everywhere," with no "actual" proof, other than saying that everything that's discovered against the said religion is how it actually is, and "forgets" that they ever argued differently.


You all are being even more closed minded than I've ever experienced before. I'm trying to answer your questions and arguments to the best of my ability. If you want real information, look for it for yourselves. But as long as I'm here, I'm going to stand my ground. And even if by some long shot this does turn out to be false, which it isn't, what have I lost? If there really is nothing, than I have lost nothing.
PracticalManiac
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PracticalManiac
295 posts
Peasant

For one the big bang is a theory, and two according to evolution we started as simple single celled organisms. Over a course of billions of years we became as complex as we are now. God does not have to be a factor for crying out loud. I think religion is bad because it is causing wars over silly beliefs. I also think religion is bad because it halters peoples ability to think logically. I also think it is bad because they think they can get away with anything as long as they admit their sins, so that no matter what they do if they follow this blind "faith" they will get into some great epic magical place.

thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

It is like you are sitting in your house, waiting for your wife. If she fails a ridicules test, like not stepping on a crack, then you don't let her in. But you love her, so why wouldn't you let her in? Change the rules to allow her entry? Tell her about the rules before hand?
Your wife is going to love you back, why would God let anyone into his kingdom who doesn't love him back?



Anyways, The truth is that there is no definite proof for either side. That's where the idea of faith comes in. You don't know that there is no god out there, just like I don't know that there is. But I still Love Jesus because I have faith. It takes just as much faith to be an atheist. There is no definite proof, and we won't know for sure until we die. If God just came down and said "worship me, cause I created all of this," he wouldn't be God. He would be a king, and that's not what God wants. I can't provide you with the answers, I'm sorry. but you can't provide me with the answers against God. I'm afraid that this is going to end in a stalemate, with us repeating the same questions over and over again. It is obvious that this site has been overrun with atheists, and I am not welcome here, so Good bye
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