I was just about to go to sleep so I was taking my nightly dump where I do a lot of reflecting.
I started a thread a couple days ago called about atheism and it started a debate. I myself am a die hard atheist but I was just wondering is religion even all that bad?
I mean maybe some people just need that cushion, maybe they cant accept their fates? I would like to hear from you why religion is so bad. Is it halting progression? Is it dumbing us down, what do you have to say?
@thepyro222: god created everything, so he also created Lucifer, and knew he would act like he did. So god created evil. If he didn't, that would mean that evil created itself, since at the beginning there is only god. Evil creating itself means there is a second power next and equal to god, meaning he is not that unique and not that allmighty. Does that fit into your view of your religion? I don't think so.. so why not just accept that your god also created evil? (Some) humans are doing evil, they are not creating it; that's a substantial difference.
my thoughts on reiligon, are that if you beilive that being a better person depends on you worshipping someone than that is kinda dumb but it has good intentions, now when you think that since this guy belives in a certain god then he must die, thats how wars can start. Overall religion is just there to pesuade people to be better people and asks u worship a certain side as colateral, because we all know humans are aggressive naturally and will fight forever we cannot stop and probably never will untill we all die out wich is inevitible. I just hope that day doesent come while i still live.
I wouldn't say religion is BAD, but I don't like being attacked by really religious people who tell me I'm going to hell and stuff. That sort of freaks me out. Also, I don't like how people kill each other because of religion. That's really not cool.
I was raised methodist until, having grown bored during the sermons, read the entire bible over the course of three sundays in church.
we're like twins i havent read the bible during church since 4th grade though... when my parents make me go to church i just kinda sit there and think about other things...
You want to talk about logical fallacies? I'm coming at you with facts and information according to the Bible, when you're slamming it based on opinion. God sent evil spirits to punish people, and Jesus was crucified so that we can enter Heaven. God himself put on skin, lived a sinless life, and died to bear the weight of all of our sins. I may not be the best at arguing, but every time there is a debate between an atheist leader and a Christian leader, the Christian leader wins. That is based upon truth. The bible is proven true over and over again. And if you're going to slam Lee Strobel's book, why don't you provide some evidence instead of stating an opinion?
I am sure you will provide some examples in following posts.
I'm coming at you with facts and information according to the Bible, when you're slamming it based on opinion.
So how do you know the information in this book is correct?
God sent evil spirits to punish people, and Jesus was crucified so that we can enter Heaven.
So why did he have to be crucified? An omnipotent being could do anything, so why make a human sacrifice.
God himself put on skin, lived a sinless life, and died to bear the weight of all of our sins.
...Why? If I was a deity, and for some reason felt it necessary to forgive my people for something that was my fault, I would make some thing non painful and already in progress. For example, I would make all your "sins" gone by drinking water in any amount. Since everyone must drink water to survive, everyone would be free. Much easier ah?
I may not be the best at arguing, but every time there is a debate between an atheist leader and a Christian leader, the Christian leader wins.
According to the Christians. According to the Atheists the Atheist's always win. It is do to the fact that you are closed minded and biased. If neither side came in with biases, the logical people would become atheists. Christians would only get emotional arguments, as they always do.
That is based upon truth.
Atheists typically turn away from religion do to science. Science is truth. So atheists have truth.
So how do you know the information in this book is correct?
The bible has been proven historically correct as it coincides with other historical documents, as said in Lee Strobel's book "A Case for Christ"
So why did he have to be crucified? An omnipotent being could do anything, so why make a human sacrifice.
Christ had to be sacrificed because, not only was it a prophecy of the coming messiah, but this was God's law. In ancient times, the Jewish would sacrifice their purest animal (usually a goat, I believe). The atonement of sins can only be repaid by the spilling of blood. Since humans are God's most precious creation, the human sacrifice, the spilling of the blood of a sinless man was the only thing to was away sins.
According to the Christians. According to the Atheists the Atheist's always win. It is do to the fact that you are closed minded and biased. If neither side came in with biases, the logical people would become atheists. Christians would only get emotional arguments, as they always do.
Hypocrite much? you are being even more closed minded. In Lee Strobel's book, there are plenty of explanations of how the bible and what happened in it, especially with the Gospels, are proven to be true. It was compared to many points of evidence.
I grew up atheist for 16 years. I was convinced that there was no God, but I was converted, and I have done tons of research in this subject. I was open minded, but I did my research, and I still am. Do not get me wrong, I still have questions, and plenty of them, but after all that I have experienced in my church, I have come to the conclusion that God is there and he loves his people, and Christ died for my sins. Atheist, Muslim, I don't care what you are, God still loves you.
Shouting louder does not make a win. Thus atheists win on the internet because Christians can't shout.
The bible is proven true over and over again.
No...it wasn't. Care for an example? Talking snakes where never proven true.
why don't you provide some evidence
I looked at a picture of the earth...it was round. Fossils are older then 6000 years old, heck, human bones where found older then 6000 years. Bats are mammals... Giants never exists and no one can live in a fish and come out alive. 98% of our gens are the same as the monkey. And the 2% was a fusion of two gens. The earth is not the center of the earth 20,000+ species could never have made it on noah's ark. And there are soooo many problems with Noah's ark to begin with. He takes 3 days to create the earth but only 1 to create infinite number of stars and space? He creates light before the sun, yet that magic light doesn't seem to exist. Did he take it off once he created the stars? A world flood never happened. No historical record said that a guy revived from the grave. I mean don't you think that a guy getting back to life would be a thing people won't forget in the next 5000 years? Let alone the next 30 years.
Of course the all mighty paradox of all powerful and all knowing.
Adam and even had 2 kids, 2 guys and one died prematurely. Can you draw me the line from there to 6billion people with different skin colour?
The bible has been proven historically correct as it coincides with other historical documents, as said in Lee Strobel's book "A Case for Christ"
You mean like naming a general in Jesus's time? Oh wait. The name was wrong, there was not a general of the time named. Poor example, since I said it off memory, but I continue. How about the fact that the pyramids were not built by Jews? Or any of the stories surrounded by that story? They never happened.
[quote]Christ had to be sacrificed because, not only was it a prophecy of the coming messiah, but this was God's law.
Why couldn't he just change the law? Why was it a prophesy in the first place? Why did he make the law in the first place, if he knew this would be the outcome?
In ancient times, the Jewish would sacrifice their purest animal (usually a goat, I believe)
Because Yahweh wanted blood and the smell of burnt flesh. I always thought sheep were more common, just for the record.
The atonement of sins can only be repaid by the spilling of blood.
What kind of sick, sadistic, psychopathic, moron wants sins to be repaid by spilling of blood? Once again, it would be more logical for an all loving being to make something more obtainable, like drinking water.
Since humans are God's most precious creation, the human sacrifice, the spilling of the blood of a sinless man was the only thing to was away sins.
So why not just say "I forgive you" and wipe away all the sins using his omnipotent powers?
Hypocrite much? you are being even more closed minded
You are ignoring centuries of scientific, logical, and historical facts. I am ignoring a book full of so many holes that a shotgun could not reproduce such an effect. Who is being closed minded?
In Lee Strobel's book, there are plenty of explanations of how the bible and what happened in it, especially with the Gospels, are proven to be true. It was compared to many points of evidence.
And everywhere else there is things on how they are wrong. Dead wrong. So if I must look up your arguments, just look up mine.
I grew up atheist for 16 years. I was convinced that there was no God, but I was converted, and I have done tons of research in this subject.
I group up Christian for ten or so years. I read the Bible, especially the OT. Then I put an end to me being a Christian. Do some actual research next time. A book so full of blood that you can't read half the text is not a bases for belief in itself.
Do not get me wrong, I still have questions, and plenty of them, but after all that I have experienced in my church, I have come to the conclusion that God is there and he loves his people, and Christ died for my sins. Atheist, Muslim, I don't care what you are, God still loves you.
He shows his love by killing? Read the OT, by yourself without the peer pressure and emotional appeal of the church and see how much of that "Love" you see... And he must love me, why else would he torture me forever once I die?
Shouting louder does not make a win. Thus atheists win on the internet because Christians can't shout.
This doesn't even make sense
Fossils are older then 6000 years old, heck, human bones where found older then 6000 years.
There is a passage in the bible which says a day of the LORD is 1000 years of man, and a day of man is 1000 years to the LORD, or something like that, so there is really no telling when God made the Earth
I looked at a picture of the earth...it was round
No where in the bible does it say the Earth is flat
Giants never exists and no one can live in a fish and come out alive. 98% of our gens are the same as the monkey. And the 2% was a fusion of two gens.
Neither of these examples have anything to do with Christianity. In fact, DNA is such an awesome thing God had to have made it
20,000+ species could never have made it on noah's ark. And there are soooo many problems with Noah's ark to begin with.
This is where Evolution comes into play. Did you know Darwin himself was actually a Christian? read the end of his book.
He takes 3 days to create the earth but only 1 to create infinite number of stars and space? He creates light before the sun, yet that magic light doesn't seem to exist. Did he take it off once he created the stars? A world flood never happened. No historical record said that a guy revived from the grave. I mean don't you think that a guy getting back to life would be a thing people won't forget in the next 5000 years? Let alone the next 30 years.
Minus light, and including vegetation and animals, the Earth took about five days to create, but look at the statement above. As for the historical record, there is a lot of them. The bible for one, and there are many other writings that said that people saw Jesus after he was crucified, and no one forgot about it, in fact, people are still celebrating it! This is called Christianity!
Adam and even had 2 kids, 2 guys and one died prematurely. Can you draw me the line from there to 6billion people with different skin colour?
The total number of children that Adam and Eve had isn't actually recorded, and populating the Earth is kind of what we do. I'm not a math whiz, but I'm sure the math is out there. Skin color changes are simply due to climate, sun exposure, and the clothes they wore.
You want to talk about logical fallacies? I'm coming at you with facts and information according to the Bible
EL OH EL!
Sorry to burst your bubble those are not facts or in any way proven.
God sent evil spirits to punish people, and Jesus was crucified so that we can enter Heaven. God himself put on skin, lived a sinless life, and died to bear the weight of all of our sins
Oh man you really proved your point with these "facts" let me tell ya! I mean the bible says it's true and I don't want to go to hell so I'm not going to question it for a second. It must be real!
The bible has been proven historically correct as it coincides with other historical documents, as said in Lee Strobel's book "A Case for Christ"
I'm going to make some documents about myself that say I am an almighty being with crazy unrealistic stories. It must be true in the future because my documents say so!
Neither of these examples have anything to do with Christianity. In fact, DNA is such an awesome thing God had to have made it
Once again, read the OT. In the OT, There is a story of Jonah and the "whale", or Giant Fish. There is also many passages about giant humans, take the famous example of Goliath.
The bible for one, and there are many other writings that said that people saw Jesus after he was crucified, and no one forgot about it, in fact, people are still celebrating it! This is called Christianity!
Examples PLOX.
This is where Evolution comes into play. Did you know Darwin himself was actually a Christian? read the end of his book.
I don't see what Darwin's religion has to do with this (But keep it up. I almost have BINGO!) but how has humanity not taken record of this mass scale evolution? Or did this flood somehow cause the ice age? Either way, it would be impossible for the man to find, gather, etc everything in the allotted amount of time and claim them.
'm not a math whiz, but I'm sure the math is out there.
Two humans inbred. That makes three inbred humans. By the tenth generation you have a pile of flesh you can hardly count as human any more. The math is out there...
Skin color changes are simply due to climate, sun exposure, and the clothes they wore.
LOLWUT? Skin color is in no way effected by cloths. Nor is sun exposure, aside from the temporary effects. Climate may, in many generations, but that is far longer than the time allotted in the Bible. A white guy (Which A and E are always portrayed as) won't just turn into a black guy by changing cloths or getting a tan...
You mean like naming a general in Jesus's time? Oh wait. The name was wrong, there was not a general of the time named. Poor example, since I said it off memory, but I continue. How about the fact that the pyramids were not built by Jews? Or any of the stories surrounded by that story? They never happened.
Proof?
Why couldn't he just change the law? Why was it a prophesy in the first place? Why did he make the law in the first place, if he knew this would be the outcome?
I really wish I had this answer for you, but I don't. I can only say that this was the way God has done it for years, and that's what needed to be fulfilled.
Because Yahweh wanted blood and the smell of burnt flesh. I always thought sheep were more common, just for the record.
Let's keep this a professional debate, personal attacks are so immature
What kind of sick, sadistic, psychopathic, moron wants sins to be repaid by spilling of blood? Once again, it would be more logical for an all loving being to make something more obtainable, like drinking water. So why not just say "I forgive you" and wipe away all the sins using his omnipotent powers?
Again, I wish I had this answer for you, but I don't. This was just God's law.
You are ignoring centuries of scientific, logical, and historical facts. I am ignoring a book full of so many holes that a shotgun could not reproduce such an effect. Who is being closed minded?
You are ignoring plenty of evidence that proves the bible, including other documents from that time period that have different accounts of the same story.
He shows his love by killing? Read the OT, by yourself without the peer pressure and emotional appeal of the church and see how much of that "Love" you see... And he must love me, why else would he torture me forever once I die?
Because you don't believe in him. Why should he show you any compassion and love even though you are convinced that he doesn't even exist?
I can't answer all of your questions, and I have done the research. Trust me. The evidence against God has very many holes as well. Like I said, I still have questions, but I have found a lot more evidence FOR God rather than against him.
