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Forums → WEPR → Is religion bad?
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I was just about to go to sleep so I was taking my nightly dump where I do a lot of reflecting.
I started a thread a couple days ago called about atheism and it started a debate. I myself am a die hard atheist but I was just wondering is religion even all that bad?
I mean maybe some people just need that cushion, maybe they cant accept their fates? I would like to hear from you why religion is so bad. Is it halting progression? Is it dumbing us down, what do you have to say?
- 296 Replies
You all are being even more closed minded than I've ever experienced before. I'm trying to answer your questions and arguments to the best of my ability. If you want real information, look for it for yourselves. But as long as I'm here, I'm going to stand my ground. And even if by some long shot this does turn out to be false, which it isn't, what have I lost? If there really is nothing, than I have lost nothing.
I'm not being closed minded at all. I'm wide open to believing, if there's anything to actually believe in. There's not much evidence for God, as in different things. Almost all of it repeats the same stuff, a few miracles, using science to say that's how god does something, trying to squish the Bible's time line into an impossibly short amount of time, the Bible itself...The whole of revelations is what i'd expect from a street corner addict who's preaching the end of the world. I've gone to church, I was raised as a Christian, i've looked before, and there's no "real" answers. All anything in the end ever says is "have faith" and "Only god knows why" etc...
As for what you've lost, that depends how heavily you're involved in it. As a celibate priest, i'd say you've lost a lot. As a once a week church goer, you've probably gained a little actually in a feeling of community and friendship.
Thepyro222.... my dear friend. I gave you proof against god called science. You said you would give me proof about god can I have it please? And not an excerpt from the bible. And you are losing something... if you have not noticed you have lost the ability to think for yourself. You have lost the ability to listen to reason and logic. If god is real he certainly is not a guy I want to worship. I would much rather be with the reject Satan and his followers down in hell and endure whatever punishment as long as I did not give praise to that freaking *** hole called god.
Let's take a classic example: the Big bang. A massive super- explosion that is said to have created the entire universe.
Common misconception. It was an expansion, not an explosion. That sentence there proves that you do not know what the "Big Bang" even is. So look it up before you try to debate it.
Well, who created the Big Bang?
Who created Yahweh? Why would the Big Bang need a creator?
And for the Big bang to have happened, then just by some slight chance, this planet is at the exact distance from the sun, the exact shape it needs to be, with the exact elements that we need to survive, with exact climates, etc.
Wow! Out of billions upon billions of planets, a few are suitable for life! That is like rolling ten dice a million times and ending in all sixes a few times!!1!11!. And even then, the planet can have a far different atmosphere, with different chemicals, further or closer from the sun, and it would still be able to have life, with slightly different conditions of course.
You're going to tell me that just kind of... happened?
Wow! I flipped Three coins, two of them ended on coins and one on heads! There must be some coin - leading elves... Are you going to tell me that that just kind of happened?
Look at human beings. We are extremely intricate creatures with complicated systems for running this complex machine we call a body.
And we must be running Windows, since we crash all the time. We have useless and some times harmful body parts. For example, my toenails are perfect to become ingrown do to my genetics. A more extreme example would be the genetic-based disease that makes the blood cells spheres rather than normal shape. Then the spleen takes the cells as foreign bodies and destroys them, which has a bouquet of negative effects. So if humans are so perfectly built, than why can't he get a simple blood cell correctly?
From the circulatory to the very DNA. You're going to tell me this happened, but how?
It started a long, long time ago with a simple organism...
There had to be a creator, anything else just makes no sense.
So because we have some "complex" life, you think that there must be a sky faerie which is WAY more complex than anything we have ever seen?
Well, the old way didn't work, so he started over again with Noah and the flood, but people still were sinners, so he sent his son to teach us how to live, and to make sure we could get into Heaven no matter what, he had his son bear the weight of our sins upon the cross to take our punishment.
Because he created them like that. And since he knew the outcome of the flood, why did he cause it in the first place?
You all are insanely closed minded. I gave you proof over and over again... It's called "A Case For..." The entire series by Lee Strobel, but you've all shot that down on some bullcrap. I'm withdrawling my hand and leaving it on the table. I will continue believing what I want, and no one is going to alter that. There has to be something if millions and millions have died for this cause, and if I'm willing to die for it. It's called The Way, the Truth, and The Light.
Your wife is going to love you back, why would God let anyone into his kingdom who doesn't love him back?
Fine. Here is a better example.
Lets say you have a long-lost son. He is eventually found and adopted, the parents convincing him that he was their son. Then one day, you meat your long lost son again. You know it is him, but he doesn't know who you are so when you talk to him he looks at you strangely and walks away. One day he is in trouble and needs your assistance which you can easily provide. So would you help him, even though he doesn't return your love, or would you stab a knife in his leg and twist? Yahweh seems to do the second.
The truth is that there is no definite proof for either side
And do to the burden of proof and the razor, that means that your hypothesis is discredited. Moving on.
You don't know that there is no god out there, just like I don't know that there is.
That can be said for unicorns. That doesn't mean you should believe in unicorns. The razor and the burden....
But I still Love Jesus because I have faith. It takes just as much faith to be an atheist. There is no definite proof, and we won't know for sure until we die. If God just came down and said "worship me, cause I created all of this," he wouldn't be God. He would be a king, and that's not what God wants. I can't provide you with the answers, I'm sorry. but you can't provide me with the answers against God. I'm afraid that this is going to end in a stalemate, with us repeating the same questions over and over again. It is obvious that this site has been overrun with atheists, and I am not welcome here, so Good bye
Actually, this can all be referred to the razor and the burden...
Well I bid farewell to you pyro. But about the open mindness part I bet you did not once consider the facts we gave you as proof against god. Just saying. And the Lee Strobel thing is just dumb.
You all are insanely closed minded
90% of your text can be translated into "NANANA IMA NOT PAYING ATTENTION!!", and we are some how closed minded?
I gave you proof over and over again
And that proof has been deflected. Did you read Mage's comment? He gave a link arguing your link. Go there.
'm withdrawling my hand and leaving it on the table.
Good riddance. I have had more alert conversations with cleverbot.
I will continue believing what I want, and no one is going to alter that. There has to be something if millions and millions have died for this cause, and if I'm willing to die for it. It's called The Way, the Truth, and The Light.
No, there doesn't. If that where true, than the Muslims are also correct. And all the cults that kill themselves. And cults that sacrament humans... Hundreds have died for many religions. That does not make them correct.
You all are insanely closed minded.
I will continue believing what I want, and no one is going to alter that.
Yeah i'm done arguing with you. This is how every debate turns out.
Unfortunately I don't think I can cover everything that's gone on here. I might break me record in lengthy posts if I covered everything I wanted to here.
You want to talk about logical fallacies? I'm coming at you with facts and information according to the Bible, when you're slamming it based on opinion.
It's not opinion, I provided a series of videos that you and anyone can review and look up the information for yourself. You can start with the counter arguments put forth in the review. Don't just take what either is saying you can look these things up for yourself.
Christ had to be sacrificed because, not only was it a prophecy of the coming messiah, but this was God's law. In ancient times, the Jewish would sacrifice their purest animal (usually a goat, I believe). The atonement of sins can only be repaid by the spilling of blood. Since humans are God's most precious creation, the human sacrifice, the spilling of the blood of a sinless man was the only thing to was away sins.
As I said this is sick, twisted, and barbaric.
There is a passage in the bible which says a day of the LORD is 1000 years of man, and a day of man is 1000 years to the LORD, or something like that, so there is really no telling when God made the Earth
Even taking this into account the time given is far to short. The 6,000 year date was figured by adding the years those in the Bible lived with the 7 days being literal. now if we figure those 7 days equate to 7,000 years this gives us an age of 13,000 years. Even if we give the max number of 12,000 years with the added 7,000 we only get the still far to young age of 19,000 years.
No where in the bible does it say the Earth is flat
It states the Earth is a circle. There are other Hebrew words that can be used to denote a spherical object rather then the one used for circle, which even in Hebrew denotes a flat surface. Thus according to the Bible the earth is flat.
This is where Evolution comes into play. Did you know Darwin himself was actually a Christian? read the end of his book.
the creationists "superevolution" is not how evolution works, and Darwins religion has nothing to do with his findings.
Minus light, and including vegetation and animals, the Earth took about five days to create, but look at the statement above.
Given our 1day=1,000 years plants were created on the 3rd day (3,000 year mark) the sun was created at the 4th day (4,000 year mark). Plant life would not have been able to survive that long without sunlight. Not to mention without the gravitational forces of the sun we wouldn't have a planet. Was God standing in for the sun for a few thousand years (our time) while he was making all this? If so he did things rather backwards considering making the sun first would have been far easier as it lays the ground work for the rest of the solar system.
The total number of children that Adam and Eve had isn't actually recorded, and populating the Earth is kind of what we do.
We would find virtually no genetic diversity if all humans started from just two people 6-10 thousand years ago. for example the cheetah has experienced a bottle neck with far greater numbers and as a result they have virtually no genetic diversity between them.
Skin color changes are simply due to climate, sun exposure, and the clothes they wore.
Genetics is the biggest factor in determining skin color. So yet again starting from only two people and having a large diversity of genetics determining a variety of skin color doesn't fit together.
Because you don't believe in him. Why should he show you any compassion and love even though you are convinced that he doesn't even exist?
Maybe because of this? "I have come to the conclusion that God is there and he loves his people, and Christ died for my sins. Atheist, Muslim, I don't care what you are, God still loves you."
It seems you can't even stay self consistent.
Every thing you said is completely based on opinion. can you prove the bible is not true?
-The genetics of all of humanity starting from just two people is inconsistent with observations of the human genome.
-The creation of the Earth and planets before the sun (regardless of what a day means) goes against the physics of the solar system.
-A global flood would not be possible given there isn't enough water on the planet for it. Not to mention we yet again run into the problem of genetic diversity among species being dwindled down to such low levels.
-It claims demons not microscopic organisms are the cause of illnesses
-it claims the creation of every animal, which doesn't even fit your "superevolution", let alone what we actually observe.
-The Bible is even self contradicting.
Just to name a few.
There is plenty of evidence out there. You just have to look for it, when you provide me evidence against God, then I will provide you with evidence for him.
Your the one claiming existence so it's up to you to provide the evidence for that existence. If something doesn't exist there will be no evidence of it's existence.
the Big bang. A massive super- explosion that is said to have created the entire universe.
It was a massive expansion of the universe not actually an explosion.
Well, who created the Big Bang?
No one, this is like asking "who makes it rain?", or "who makes earthquakes?" just as you don't need a who for these we don't need a who for the Big Bang.
then just by some slight chance, this planet is at the exact distance from the sun, the exact shape it needs to be, with the exact elements that we need to survive, with exact climates, etc. You're going to tell me that just kind of... happened?
Considering the number of times that dice got rolled it would be very odd if we were the only ones, So all this happening at least once isn't that hard to believe. Further more we adapted to fit the environment not the other way around. So it's a bit like being amazed at say a chocolate bunny fitting the mold it came out of. So really this is backwards thinking.
Look at human beings. We are extremely intricate creatures with complicated systems for running this complex machine we call a body. From the circulatory to the very DNA. You're going to tell me this happened, but how?
We evolved, as we did we became more and more complex. We can see this in the fossil record, as we move up through the geological layers we fine life becoming more complex. The process of adding new genetic material is largely the result of gene duplication and mutation.
There had to be a creator, anything else just makes no sense. And if there is a creator, and we are his creation, He's going to want us to act a certain way.
he wants us to act a certain way then gives us free will so we can and will act differently, your God is an idiot.
Well, the old way didn't work, so he started over again with Noah and the flood, but people still were sinners, so he sent his son to teach us how to live, and to make sure we could get into Heaven no matter what, he had his son bear the weight of our sins upon the cross to take our punishment.
So even after giving it a second shot he still couldn't get it right huh? So in his not at all cruel way had someone killed so he could forgive us?
I gave you proof over and over again... It's called "A Case For..." The entire series by Lee Strobel, but you've all shot that down on some bullcrap.
That's what's called an appeal to authority, and we shot it down as some bullcrap.
You all are insanely closed minded.
Funny how you say this and this.. "I will continue believing what I want, and no one is going to alter that."
I say good day to you hypocrite.
Anyway this all does illustrate another issue of religion. it seems to blind us and reduce our ability to think critically. It seems to discourage such behavior, not allowing us to see anything beyond "God did it" even when there are other answers.
No one, this is like asking "who makes it rain?", or "who makes earthquakes?" just as you don't need a who for these we don't need a who for the Big Bang.
Or, "What's north of the north pole?"
Another review of Lee's book, along with cover what his corroborating evidence
is. it's pretty sketchy stuff at best.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/strobel.html
Here is someone thinking they actually have something good when it's actually just Lee Strobel saying the Bible is true because the Bible says it's true.
Can you still be an atheist after watching this!
Yeah I can still be an atheist after watching that piece of reasoning.
And facts vs Lee Strobel fallacies.
Re: The Fossil Record Proves Creation - Lee Strobel
It's not mentioned in the video but at the end Lee mentions a list of scientists. It was a creationist magazine, most of the scientists listed were taken out of context and wrote to have there names removed after they found out what the magazine was claiming thy were saying. Of course they didn't honor the request. Many of the scientists weren't even in a field that dealt with evolution. So in those cases it's a bit like asking a dentist his opinion on a procedure in brain surgery. I can't remember but I would wager the few irreparable creationist scientists would likely also be listed.
This doesn't even make sense
Well...yes it does. Religious people get all emotional...at-least most of the times, there are exceptions of course.
Neither of these examples have anything to do with Christianity. In fact, DNA is such an awesome thing God had to have made it
Okay...I think the atheists here have answered that question. And god creates human DNA that looks just like monkey DNA and says there is no relation? Couldn't he make it a bit less coincidental?
This is where Evolution comes into play.
Yea, and evolution just owns that myth.
Did you know Darwin himself was actually a Christian?
Unbelievable.
"I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. â" I think that generally ... an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."
"absurd to doubt that a man might be an ardent theist and an evolutionist"
All from his mouth.
said that people saw Jesus after he was crucified,
Then how come people doubt this? How come when I open a historical book it's not like....i don't know....In it? I mean this is an even bigger event then world war 2 in a sense. It would be even bigger then the invention of the weal or a Pharaoh king.
The total number of children that Adam and Eve had isn't actually recorded, and populating the Earth is kind of what we do. I'm not a math whiz, but I'm sure the math is out there. Skin color changes are simply due to climate, sun exposure, and the clothes they wore.
Okay? It says in the bible that Adam and Eve had two kids. In your book! So the one male kid masturbates and somehow (with magic) a woman comes to life and then he has sex with her (same family mind you) Causes the kids to have genetic problems and from there on, I don't really think you can go far.
Religion is merely a way for a small group of people to control the masses. I don't believe in it and I can see through its lies and bullcrap.
I only read the topic and have but this to say:
I am Christian. And if I die and nothing happens, then I will be wrong, but I won't care because I'll be dead.
If I were an atheist, and I died, and nothing happened, I wouldn't care because I'd be dead.
Atheism is supported by mostly "science", right? Well, then, can we prove that we die? Yes. Can anyone disprove that there is a God? I have yet to see it. Besides, in my opinion, science has no decent explanation for the universe. I know how (supposedly) the Big Bang was the entire universe in a small particle. But where did that come from? And what about other dimensions? What about those? How did they come about? I'd like to know, and all I can find are things that say that alternate dimensions are just there, but they'd still be empty, unless an multidimensional wormhole opened up (somehow) and spat out an entire universe for no apparent reason. I just don't get it. SOMETHING had to come from SOMEWHERE. But every time I find out where it came from, I need to find out where that came from, and so on. Where does it end?
I have another question. How does a part fish, part land creature switch from scales to skin? And how does a scale switch to the feathers that allow birds to fly? Have we documented this process in video or writing? And how does a bird know where to put its feathers when it evolved? Did it just guess right on the first try? And what sort of environment might prompt a creature to leave the ocean? Could it escape predators, all of whom also moved to land? And why haven't people evolved another arm, or an exoskeleton? Those would be nice. Or wings? How does one "try" to evolve? Is that possible? And how did the first animal form its skin/scales? Is there another method of guarding internal organs? Or did it develop a brain first, knowing that it would have more complex organs that would need one to run them? How would an organism survive without a heart? Or gills? What about a dietary change? How would a plant eater evolve into a meat eater without having a mass species starvation first?
More questions. Can your heart work without lungs? Can your brain function without your heart? Can your lungs function without your heart? Can your eyes,ears, or mouth function without any of these?
Basically, assuming evolution is true, which organ developed first? And where did the materials come from to build such a thing? And who combined them to form a cell? And how does one species contain the genes for every species on earth? And, also, how does the cell know how to reproduce? Who/what taught it that?
I'd like some answers so I can understand this whole evolution thing better. Because scientists are skeptical, right? They're supposed to question things that seem irrational, correct? And a fish turning into a lizard seemed pretty irrational to me. So just help me understand this whole thing.
An unanswered question= "we don't know" in my opinion.
Please tell me if I'm wrong. I can't tell myself where I'm wrong if I made the mistakes. Also, feel free to show me if I asked any loaded questions, if I did just quote them to show me which ones they were and you won't have to answer them. Feel free to flame, spam, tl;dr this or whatever. Just follow the Golden Rule.
On topic, though, I think religion is no more harmful than science. How much money has been spent on science? How many lives have been lost due to scientific advancement (atom bomb, etc.)? I know a lot of people have been "religious" and done terrible things, but they were taking the religion and using some older parts (that were later elaborated on and made more specific, sort of like the scientists would have in Mage's post if the could have) to support their cause. If another thing would have been more accessible, they would have used that. The Crusades weren't biblical. Read the Ten Commandments. Which of those do you disagree with (on a moral basis)? It seems that people take extremists and then say they're the norm. Kind of like when those scientists were misquoted in the Lee Strobel video that Mage posted.
That's it, feel free to leave criticism as long as it's about something, not just flaming the whole thing.
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