I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
Like I said gathering food so that you can eat is not wrong on the sabbath. Jesus was hungry, so he went off into the feilds to gather wheat so that he could eat. So if he can do it, why can't they?
Like I said gathering food so that you can eat is not wrong on the sabbath. Jesus was hungry, so he went off into the feilds to gather wheat so that he could eat. So if he can do it, why can't they?
But why is gathering wood, which as you may know also necessary for eating back then, a fatal offense while gathering food is not? A man was stoned to death in the bible for gathering wood, so what is the difference?
Now doesn't the bible tell you to "help yourself and god will help you" somewhere?
I don't believe so...
You surely know that story, about a guy who sits on the roof of his house because of a flood. Several times, someone comes by in a raft, boat or even a helicopter once, tell him to come on board to save himself. But he refuses to come, saying 'God will save me'. The flood increases, he drowns and appears before God. He then asks, 'why didn't you help me out when I was on the roof?' And God replies, 'I sent you help several times, even a helicopter, and you didn't accept it. What did you expect?'.
Yes, I am familiar with this story. And I believe that the man should have had a little common sense and taken the boat or helicopter. I don't think he should have expected a magic cloud to lift him to safety. Sometimes God does orchestrate specific situations through other people's actions for someone's benefit.
So yes, if you believe in divine providence you should not worry about tomorrow, as long as you do something and don't just sit around waiting for help (doesn't need to be stealing, but sometimes there ain't no other way for certain people).
Right. One shouldn't sit around all day and hope that God will waltz in with whatever the person has asked for. Like the book of James says somewhere "Faith without deeds, is dead."
So, which to believe? The Bible? Or the Ten commandments?
So, which to use? My hands? Or my fingers?
You make a big fuss over Mage quoting more than the actualy number of Commandments. Does it not occur to you that he's merely splitting up points related to the Commandments and dealing with them,
First, I'm not making that big of a fuss. The reason I even give a fuss (hahaha < that sounds really funny) is because when he split up this commandment: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God [am] a jealous God," It creates an entirely different meaning to it. But when they are together as they are supposed to be, it all fits together perfectly.
No I don't mind.
You sound like a five-year-old who's been asked: "How would you like it if I did that* to you?" Then the five-year-old says "I wouldn't mind"
* "that" Could be any number of situations like if the kid hit his sibling or if he teased him in general.
My point is, you're just saying that you don't mind because you want to defeat the argument.
Seems to me a rather petty and thin-skin God, if He can't take some criticism or bile and expects everyone to subserviently adore him.
He created the universe and everything in it. I think He has a right to make the rules.
He's saying that it's not possible to keep a Sunday for holy day when you have to work your butt off to even put food on the table. If God can't even understand that, and expects us to rigidly keep a day off for adoring him instead of trying to live, then that God is not a decent God.
Like I said before... Seek God first, and He will provide. So if you go to church and do your best to be a more perfect person and to learn more about Him, then He will still provide for you no matter how many kids or jobs you have.
Hohohoho, tell that to the starving Christian children in Africa.There are an estimated 925 million starving people in the world, and a good many of them are in countries where Christianity is the majority religion.
Okay. I guess I will tell them that if you insist.
And you wonder why your posts get removed. Hmmm.
One of Mage's posts got removed as well............
Like I said gathering food so that you can eat is not wrong on the sabbath. Jesus was hungry, so he went off into the feilds to gather wheat so that he could eat. So if he can do it, why can't they?
What about a poor man in some city with a big family who needs the money to buy food, and thus has to work/do-a-job-not-related-to-food as much as possible? He cannot possibly go to a crop field and get some food, either because the city is huge or because anyway it would be stealing the farmers crop. He also cannot afford sitting around for a whole day since that means no money to buy food that day.
He cannot possibly go to a crop field and get some food, either because the city is huge or because anyway it would be stealing the farmers crop. He also cannot afford sitting around for a whole day since that means no money to buy food that day.
If you notice Jesus was working on the sabbath to gather food. Having a job to get money to buy food isn't much different because you are still gathering food.
If you notice Jesus was working on the sabbath to gather food. Having a job to get money to buy food isn't much different because you are still gathering food.
Let's just completely ignore the fact that the Bible says it's okay to stone people to death for working on the Sabbath, regardless.
Did God say that people should be stoned for working on the sabbath? No.
Is the Bible the word of God according to both itself and the religion in general? Yes.
Did the jews pass a law that people should be stoned for working on the sabbath? Yes.
Does God allow such an example to remain in his book, thus passively endorsing it? Yes.
If the Bible truly was the word of God, and it was God's way of telling us what is right and wrong, it would make sense if he actually had what was right and wrong in there no?
If the Bible truly was the word of God, and it was God's way of telling us what is right and wrong, it would make sense if he actually had what was right and wrong in there no?
(Sighs)....I did mention that Jesus was working on the fields in order to eat didn't I?
Did God say that people should be stoned for working on the sabbath? No.
Sorry mate you are wrong.
From the Bible: While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day.[Numbers 15:32] Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, [15:33] and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. [15:34] Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp."[15:35] So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.[15:36]
According to the story the Jews didn't really know what to do with him, God ordered them to stone him. Its pretty clear. Read your book.
(Sighs)....I did mention that Jesus was working on the fields in order to eat didn't I?
Yes, you did. And then you completely failed twice now to even mention the fact that the Bible says that it's okay to stone people to death for working on the Sabbath. To which my comment was...
Let's just completely ignore the fact that the Bible says it's okay to stone people to death for working on the Sabbath, regardless.
Right? Right. Because that's how religion rolls.
Now, are you going to stop evading the question and actually answer it, or continue to try and dodge the issue at hand?
Which reminds me of another question I had, so sorry for the double post.
In my experience, many Christians argue that the Old Testament is "less valid" than the New Testament, or that it's flat out "wrong."
If so, then why the hell is it in your Holy Book in the first place?
I can't tell you how many times I've had someone say, "find me where Jesus says that" in response to a problem I bring up. It's in your Holy Book, which you claim is the word of God. It shouldn't matter if Jesus directly said the thing or not, because the entire book falls under the category of "God said so."
Also from Exodus: For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.[31:15] For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.[35:2]
Frankly, the whole put to death thing seems pretty straightforward.
In my experience, many Christians argue that the Old Testament is "less valid" than the New Testament, or that it's flat out "wrong."
Honestly, it never ceases to amaze me how easily Christians detach themselves from the absurdities, contradictions and outright bad things in the Bible and just -arbitrarily- pick and choose only the "good" parts of the Bible. Y'know, only parts of the bible are true (or to be taken literal) but, hey, it's God's word!
Yes, you did. And then you completely failed twice now to even mention the fact that the Bible says that it's okay to stone people to death for working on the Sabbath. To which my comment was...
Ahem... God did not say that people should be stoned to death for not resting on the sabbath. The "[Jews]" made that. They also decided to add to that law: You cannot go more than ten feet away from your home on the sabbath. You cannot go to heal a sick person on the sabbath. Theres more but my memory is a bit clouded.
In my experience, many Christians argue that the Old Testament is "less valid" than the New Testament, or that it's flat out "wrong." If so, then why the hell is it in your Holy Book in the first place?
Now lets see, Does my preacher consider most things in the old testament wrong? No. Do I think most things in the old testament is wrong? no.
