Forums → WEPR → Should Israel Exist

the worst war crime since the holocaust

Nazi voters werent tried with war crimes, the Nazis were

but then you come out with one of the most arrogant, racist posts I have ever had the displeasure of reading

"I think that we are entering the phase of the liberation of Palestine. When we talk about the liberation of Palestine, we are talking about the notion of Return: the return of the refugees to their homeland, and the return of the Israelis to the countries from which they came."

Wow, so all of a sudden you are willing to accept the original plans from the 1947 charter? That will never happen, because Israel has no reason for it to happen. The Arabs REJECTED the original partition plan, and now they have their tails in between their legs asking for the original plan. Well, that's what happens when you get your butt kicked. If they didn't want it before, than they might as well just take what they can get. Also, calling Goblin racist is a bit overkill don't you think? I mean, there was no mention of race inside the post you were referencing.

all I am doing when I talk about the Nazis is using the most useful comparison I can think of, not calling anyone a Nazi

it would be nice if goblin would stop twisting what I say

Personally, I think there won't be no peace. Especially if I read stuff like this. It was said by the Hamas Foreign Liaisons chief Osama Hamdan

"I think that we are entering the phase of the liberation of Palestine. When we talk about the liberation of Palestine, we are talking about the notion of Return: the return of the refugees to their homeland, and the return of the Israelis to the countries from which they came."

what's wrong with that statement, I would agree that is a good goal to aim for eventually

and the return of the Israelis to the countries from which they came

I think that politically, the two-state solution is over. The people who suggested this notion are the ones who say so. Therefore, trying to talk about a two-state solution again is like talking about something that is over and done with.

Not exactly. The way I see it Arab governments needed a way to unit the Arabs that where already extremely hostile to each other so they started uniting against a common enemy. That decision was followed by massive racist propaganda that had grown hatred in many Arab minds regarding Jews and Israel in particular. And no I don't think you understand this from our view by the way you answered my hospital question. That sort of answer was baseless and can only be true if assumed Jews are evil to the core.

Zakyman I think will tell you that I am in no way on the side of Hamas, you cans say what you want about what Arabs believe, what they do is very different, you cannot persecute people for their beliefs

punishing the Arabs for what their ancestors did is just stupid

(1973). Oh well, at least a lot of Jews died so lets make this a national holiday.

Arabs can still attack Israel, Egypt for example is heavily armed with modern weaponry and Syria still wants to make "Israel pay".

The public in Israel doesn't want to evacuate all of them and if you know a thing or two about democracy you will know it makes it almost impossible.

The Arabs REJECTED the original partition plan, and now they have their tails in between their legs asking for the original plan

Again, if you want to see what a lack of human rights is, look at Africa, southern Asia or better - almost all the rest of the Arabian countries.

Aside from that, these areas are poor, agricultural, tribal, and mostly isolated. They see it as weird if someone was to come to them from Europe and talk about human rights.

Yeah, but they still understand if they are being screwed...

your the one that brought it into this

Zakyman I think will tell you that I am in no way on the side of Hamas, you cans say what you want about what Arabs believe, what they do is very different, you cannot persecute people for their beliefs

read the first post, don't try to insinuate that I am in any way racist towards Jews, at no point have I said anything of the sort, and that kind of desperate tactic (I.e playing the racism card because I disagree with Israel's actions) doesn't help your cause in any way, my response was simply highlighting the lack of preparation for minimising civilian casualties in Israeli operations

once upon a time yes, however the cold war has ended in case you hadn't noticed

sorry but I work on logic, and I don't consider some ancient holy books as any kind of reliable evidence, and if your descended for European Jews then no you aren't Semitic

Recently published research in the field of molecular genetics â"- the study of DNA sequences â"- indicates that Jewish populations of the various Diaspora communities have retained their genetic identity throughout the exile. Despite large geographic distances between the communities and the passage of thousands of years, far removed Jewish communities share a similar genetic profile. This research confirms the common ancestry and common geographical origin of world Jewry.

Jewish men from communities which developed in the Near East â"- Iran, Iraq, Kurdistan, Yemen -- and European Jews have very similar, almost identical genetic profiles.

the Arabs do want war, how does the SW help, all it does it trap people in one giant prison, no matter what the military benefits it is a violation of people human rights, it has no right to exist

again your trying to twist my words and it make s you look like an idiot, all I was doing was drawing parallels in the way the Nazis and Israelis use collective punishment

again trying to twist my words, why do you keep doing that, that's not how we do it here in AG, we respond to each others argument with reasoning and logic, not slander and lies.

also just because Israel isn't the baddest of the bad, doesn't mean that they can do what they want, I don't care what's happening in other parts of the world, we are debating Israel,

the wall is a violation of human rights, its not right to sacrifice their human rights, to imprison them, to humiliate them, to leave them trapped behind a wall unable to leave their homes for fear of being shot, who cares how many lives it saves, its not the right thing to do, if you start sacrificing human rights you lose your morality, your humanity, it doesn't matter how many lives it saves, it just isn't right

what do you mean by that? please explain

I addressed this earlier this post but about the humanity part:
You way overestimate what the limitations on the human rights are and underestimate the value of human lives saved. Without nothing to stop terrorism dousns of Israelis could die every day from bombings and shooting attacks.

sn't that a Jewish Holiday?
Not to mention, in this one, The USA helped Israel so much that the Arab countries launched an oil crisis.

I think you should know.
That out of everything in this world.
Starbucks chooses to give around 4-12 Million dollars to the Israeli army each year.
Starbucks.
Top that off with all of America, all of Europe, and possibly Turkey -- and Egypt and Syria look like flies. Just saying.

Furthermore, MIddle Eastern debt is held more by the west than the east, MIddle Eastern economy is more heavily influenced by the West, etc. etc. etc. -- They can't piss off the west.

Have you noticed Terrorism is prevalent in poor areas? North Pakistan, Southern Afghanistan, the Gaza Strip, Central Asia? [Let's exclude the whole Irish thing because it's domestic terrorism and it's not as explosive]

Combating militant violence - particularly within South Asia and the Middle East - stands at the top of the international security agenda. Much of the policy literature focuses on poverty as a root cause of support for violent political groups and on economic development as a key to addressing the challenges of militancy and terrorism. Unfortunately, there is little evidence to support this contention, particularly in the case of Islamist militant organizations. To address this gap we conducted a 6000-person, nationally representative survey of Pakistanis that measures affect towards four important militant organizations. We apply a novel measurement strategy to mitigate item nonresponse, which plagued previous surveys due to the sensitive nature of militancy. Our study reveals three key patterns. First, Pakistanis exhibit negative affect toward all four militant organizations, with those from areas where groups have conducted the most attacks disliking them the most. Second, contrary to conventional expectations poor Pakistanis dislike militant groups more than middle-class citizens. Third, this dislike is strongest among poor urban residents, suggesting that the negative relationship stems from exposure to the externalities of terrorist attacks. Longstanding arguments tying support for violent political organizations to individualsâ economic prospects - and the subsequent policy recommendations - may require substantial revision.

The study is asking what other people think about these areas.
Of course, if you are an urban poor, and terrorists are ruining your city -- chances are whatever money you were collecting before is gone, or people find it too dangerous to come outside -- your shop is screwed.
So of course, the urban poor do not like these militant organizations.

As for all Pakistanis exhibiting negative affect towards all of the organizations, that still makes sense. If you are a non-terrorist Pakistani, you're wondering why there are these morons ruining your country.
But this doesn't disprove the idea that the majority of terrorists come out of/do reside in areas of low socioeconomic potential.

Also, Many poor Pakistanis have a longstanding idealistic thought about how to give away inheritance to sons. Usually, if there's only enough bank to send one to school, the other is put off in the path of Islamic studies -- Who he studies from can be a big deal. If it is in a more isolated area, like a village, then chances are prevalent that his teacher isn't going to be the most pro-western guy, because all he knows about is American soldiers and their infidelity.

The study makes sense, but it is still fact that most terrorist organizations are based in poorer areas.

[quote]I addressed this earlier this post but about the humanity part:
You way overestimate what the limitations on the human rights are and underestimate the value of human lives saved. Without nothing to stop terrorism dousns of Israelis could die every day from bombings and shooting attacks.

multiculturalism approximates to respect for ethnic diversity

Most of the Arabs living in East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, occupied by Israel since the Six-Day War of 1967, were offered Israeli citizenship, but refused... They became permanent residents. They are entitled to municipal services and have voting rights.

After the 6 day war in 1967 when Israel was attacked by 4 armies on 3 fronts, United Nations Security Council: Resolution 242 stated that Israel are entitled to new defensible borders to replace to replace the previous fragile line's from which it was attacked.

To Defend itself, Israel must retain control over the Jordan Valley

tenicaly irasel was bought form th jews after world war 2 ( when i say bought i mean "you give as this land our we will invade" thats what the allies said)