ForumsWEPRShould Israel Exist

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zakyman
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zakyman
1,627 posts
Peasant

The question is simple. Should Israel exist. I know that this subject is very controversial so I am setting some "ground rules."
1. Because Israel is so tied into Judaism, NO ANTI-SEMETIC COMMENTS
2. Please back up your reasoning with facts
3. Respect other's opinions. I cannot tell you how many times I have been on CNN and seen people flinging mud at each other. BE RESPECTFUL!

I am looking forward to seeing the posts and logic behind the opinions.

For the record, I think it should exist.

  • 339 Replies
GoblinD
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GoblinD
322 posts
Nomad


mnay are emigrating however due to lack of land, what with the 300,000 settlers on their land, and dont say that its fine because there are other arab nations, just because they are of the same ethnicity doesnt mean that each arab nation doesnt have its own national identity

I meant the population inside the West bank and Gaza is growing. Immigration happens all the time when people want better economical opportunities. Its a common mistake to think the west bank and Gaza are too dense for more people to live in but if you look closer with Google Earth, you would see there is still a lot of open lands, small villages and that it's not all one big city. That's because people usually live in cities and cities don't take up a lot of room with their high apartment buildings and all.
If I'm correct, China is more dense then the West bank.


Palestinians still have the largest population growth in the world.

They used to have, but in the last few years it started a deep drop. I think today the title goes to Afghanistanis.
sprooschicken
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sprooschicken
1,143 posts
Nomad

I meant the population inside the West bank and Gaza is growing. Immigration happens all the time when people want better economical opportunities. Its a common mistake to think the west bank and Gaza are too dense for more people to live in but if you look closer with Google Earth, you would see there is still a lot of open lands, small villages and that it's not all one big city. That's because people usually live in cities and cities don't take up a lot of room with their high apartment buildings and all.


yes but with a growing population, eventually they are going to need more of their land back, they will need to expand, and not all of the land is liveable, at some point Israel is going to have to stop punishing the children of Palestine and give them back the land that they need
GoblinD
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GoblinD
322 posts
Nomad

Israel also has a large birth rate, especially in comparison to all the other industrialized countries. In fact, the palestinian birth rate is sinking so hard lately that Israel pass their growth rate soon. The West bank birth rate today is about 3-4 per woman, don't remember the exact number but the drop keeps on going. The Israeli one is 2.9 and keeps on growing (but very slowly compared to the Palestinian birth drop rate). In fact, demographic experts today analyze the Palestinian growth rate in the West bank would go negative in about 20-30 years. Unless they get another big war and a big baby boom I tend to agree with that prediction, but even if there is a war, it would probably also involve Israel and give Israel also a baby boom.
But I'm not so sure this even matters because the number of people can't really decide how much land each country would get. If it was so then China should expand into Siberia, Mexico in USA, Israel into Europe and so on and so on.

And almost forgot, the land is very livable. Especially the palestinian 1967 boarders. In fact it was the jewish part of the 1967 boarders that was largely unlivable but with hard work, deserts where pushed back and swamps where dried up.

GoblinD
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GoblinD
322 posts
Nomad

Just noticed this so I'm posting:
West bank birth per woman by the CIA fact book:
3.05 children born/woman

iMogwai
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iMogwai
2,027 posts
Peasant

Israel should exist.

It was made to remember the Jews that died and survived in Hitlers invasion.


You completely misunderstood the point of this question. The point is that the land which is now Israel was already inhabited when it was given to the Jews, and that the previous inhabitants are now being oppressed by Israel.
sprooschicken
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sprooschicken
1,143 posts
Nomad

don't even try correcting these people, they comment not knowing anything about the subject, stating basic facts that are often wrong or irrelevant and then never comment again, it's best to just ignore them, or the thread turns to spam

akqpars
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akqpars
183 posts
Nomad

Their religion suggests them to not before messiah,religios jews protesting government for years.

grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

Their religion suggests them to not before messiah,religios jews protesting government for years.

What?^^
GoblinD
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GoblinD
322 posts
Nomad

Its true but only the really radical ones do that. They say Israel came too early and that now it must make preparations for the massiah. They also tend to be almost ridiculously right wingish.

sprooschicken
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sprooschicken
1,143 posts
Nomad

Its true but only the really radical ones do that. They say Israel came too early and that now it must make preparations for the massiah. They also tend to be almost ridiculously right wingish.


what are you replying to? and what exactly do you mean?
grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

Its true but only the really radical ones do that. They say Israel came too early and that now it must make preparations for the massiah. They also tend to be almost ridiculously right wingish.

I said "what" because I didn't understand what he was saying. As far as I understand you're talking about orthodox Jews?
Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
1,482 posts
Shepherd

To the population argument.

Yes, but for all of those who are emigrating, the Palestinians still have the largest population growth in the world.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_growth_rate

Poorer, or less industrialized countries or areas are always on the high side of population growth.

Doesn't this data hurt Israel's argument that they are being nice? Even with such a high percent growth in population within the West Bank, [meaning a high fertility rate for Palestinians], Palestinians have been shadowed out by Jews in the area over a period of like, 50 years?
GoblinD
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GoblinD
322 posts
Nomad


I said "what" because I didn't understand what he was saying. As far as I understand you're talking about orthodox Jews?

Very radical groups from the orthodox Jewish communities.
GoblinD
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GoblinD
322 posts
Nomad

Armed, you're link is broken and please look at the modern population growth charts, its sinking for quite a while. Maybe the chart you're looking at doesn't show today's demographics.
And btw, lots of other factors also effect the population growth. For example, the Israeli economy is just as good as the average European one and even better but on the other hand Israel has almost double the birth rate. Religion and culture, war and many other things can also affect that number. Hell, even gay rights effect the growth rate.

sprooschicken
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sprooschicken
1,143 posts
Nomad

sorry i feel like an idiot but I am still lost as to what you guys are all talking about that involves orthodox Jews

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