ForumsWEPRShould Israel Exist

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zakyman
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zakyman
1,627 posts
Peasant

The question is simple. Should Israel exist. I know that this subject is very controversial so I am setting some "ground rules."
1. Because Israel is so tied into Judaism, NO ANTI-SEMETIC COMMENTS
2. Please back up your reasoning with facts
3. Respect other's opinions. I cannot tell you how many times I have been on CNN and seen people flinging mud at each other. BE RESPECTFUL!

I am looking forward to seeing the posts and logic behind the opinions.

For the record, I think it should exist.

  • 339 Replies
bioniclestrakk
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bioniclestrakk
14 posts
Nomad

well, should you exist, or shoulid i exist? answer that. its not a question of existing its a qustion of alowance....

bioniclestrakk
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bioniclestrakk
14 posts
Nomad

in fact i totaly agree with wolf1991. as amercians we can not control the world.

sprooschicken
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sprooschicken
1,143 posts
Nomad

nor should you try as nearly every other attempt to do so has cost the world and in the end the US its self dearly

master i am clearly referring to the Israelites, as they are referred to in their own texts, oh and while im talking to you dont go mouthing off in other forums that i hate Israel as i have never said that, read my posts properly next time before you leap to wild unfounded conclusions

i agree wolf that the problem is how it came to be and the fact that since they were given the land the Israelis never stopped taking more, i have already suggested what be done, however neither side will ever agree to concessions as they are both corrupted by stubborn religious fundamentalists

master565
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master565
4,104 posts
Nomad

master i am clearly referring to the Israelites


So the jews.

as they are referred to in their own texts


And as muslims (sort of), and Christians.

read my posts properly next time before you leap to wild unfounded conclusions


You seem to see it as nobody who wants the land deserves it.

The British were wrong to simply allow the Jewish populace into what once was their historical homeland


They only allowed a small amount and since other countries would barely take them they needed somewhere to go after the holocaust.

Both the Arabic and Jewish populations are to blame for their conflict


Except israel doesn't launch terrorist attacks on arab countries every day and are the ones trying to make peace.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

Except israel doesn't launch terrorist attacks on arab countries every day and are the ones trying to make peace.

And in the same time go on building as if all the land was their's.
master565
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master565
4,104 posts
Nomad

And in the same time go on building as if all the land was their's.


Care to elaborate? Because i don't know what you mean. But either way, building doesn't kill arab civilians. And also anyone is allowed into Israel, if a Jew or Israeli steps foot in an arab country it's basically suicide.
grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

Care to elaborate? Because i don't know what you mean. But either way, building doesn't kill arab civilians. And also anyone is allowed into Israel, if a Jew or Israeli steps foot in an arab country it's basically suicide.


Probably he's talking about the settlements which are really a problem.

I think that it was wrong to found Israel in that region. They should have been given some land from the Germans. But now it's too late. You can't take away a country's right to exist. That's the problem with the Hamas. I wouldn't negotiate with them too to be honest.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

grimml is right, I was talking about the settlement that Israel pursues no matter what, even if it angers the Hamas a lot.

Concerning 'not killing arabs', isn't Israel's army usually eager to retaliate to every Hamas rocket that hits their ground?

I'm not trying to justify anything here, I'm just saying that Israel is miles away from being innocent in this conflict.

sprooschicken
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sprooschicken
1,143 posts
Nomad

as for not killing arabs your wrong, israel are always launching attacks on palestinian and killing civillians

they also fire rockets and bombard palestine regularly often firing on or near schools

zakyman
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zakyman
1,627 posts
Peasant

2%? You realize that it's the second picture that shows the situation after Israel had been given land, right? The one labelled "Partition Plan". That's at least 50%.


What the Partition Plan map doesn't show is the REST of the Middle East. The Middle East consists of 2,385,315 square miles. Israel is 7,951.6 square miles. If you do the math, then I was wrong. Israel consists of 0.3% of the Middle East. And chicken, Israel launches air strikes on Gaza AFTER rockets are launched at INNOCENTS. Israel only targets the militants.
sprooschicken
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sprooschicken
1,143 posts
Nomad

so you think that just becasue the people of palestine are of the same ethnic makeupas othe rrabs they can go live wherever they like

and wow then the israelis must be really bad shots, as ive hear dstories such as special foces shooting an unarmed woman waving a white flag, what bad shost they are..

zakyman
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zakyman
1,627 posts
Peasant

Chicken, what I should have said is that Israeli soldiers usually target only the militants. I am not saying that there are some bad seeds in the IDF that maliciously kill innocent people, but more often then not, Israel kills who they are trying to get, with minimal civilian lives lost and collateral damage unless they are trying to blow up a weapons cache.
Also, the 7,951.6 square miles is including the West Bank. With the loss of those areas, they will have something like .2% of the Middle East.

grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

and wow then the israelis must be really bad shots, as ive hear dstories such as special foces shooting an unarmed woman waving a white flag, what bad shost they are..


As you HEAR stories. That's not based on evidence... Can you remember Goldstone's Report? Do you know what we got to know this year?

"if I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document," and likely less critical of Israel.

"I regret that our fact-finding mission did not have such evidence explaining the circumstances in which we said civilians were targeted, because it probably would have influenced our findings about intentionality and war crimes," Goldstone said.


Source: Al-Jazeera
iMogwai
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iMogwai
2,027 posts
Peasant

What the Partition Plan map doesn't show is the REST of the Middle East. The Middle East consists of 2,385,315 square miles. Israel is 7,951.6 square miles. If you do the math, then I was wrong. Israel consists of 0.3% of the Middle East.


Are you stupid? Palestine is a country in the Arab worlds. Not all Arabs are the same. The Palestinians lost half of their country, and the fact that it's just a small part of the middle east doesn't matter. If, say, they were given half of Germany, do you think the Germans would be fine of it because it's such a small part of Europe? They could just move to Italy, because all Europeans are the same, right?

To just call the Arab world one group and not even acknowledge that there are different countries within it is borderline racism. The Palestinians lost half of their country, and the fact that there are other countries around is completely irrelevant.
master565
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master565
4,104 posts
Nomad

I think that it was wrong to found Israel in that region


You realize that's where it was in religious texts right? It's not just a location they decided on.

Concerning 'not killing arabs', isn't Israel's army usually eager to retaliate to every Hamas rocket that hits their ground?


Notice the word "retaliate"

as for not killing arabs your wrong, israel are always launching attacks on palestinian and killing civillians


Killing civilians and targeting civilians to kill are two different things.

they also fire rockets and bombard palestine regularly often firing on or near schools


Any news link? I feel like i would have heard about this.
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