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MindSucker
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MindSucker
62 posts
Nomad

I dont know why people believe in them, there wasn't a miracle NEVER the history about jesus is only a story we dont know if the miracles are real and, has he ever done nothing for you? no I'm Atheist and nothing happened to me in my life.

My parent injected me the religion, but when i grew up i became an atheist because i thought at that, i never went more to the church and nothing happened to me besides the fact that i dont need more to go to the church on sunday morning (Muahhauahh)

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azndude07
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azndude07
31 posts
Peasant

@Mage, I mean the type of blind faith that so many search for, "religion". Yes, not everyone needs it (that's why I claimed "to an extent&quot, but a lot of people, in times of adversity and strife search for a reason for their misery, or an escape from their pain. And a lot of people place this in God, the thread asked "Why people believe in Jesus - God - (Rocky Balboa)?", "I dont know why people believe in them".

For the most part, this is particularly why. It is the most available faith pool. And while you are right, in the grand scheme of human necessities, as far as food and water, faith is not truly one of them, but time and "brainwashing" have made it appear so.

Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Religon isn't what causes wars, people do. If someone really wanted to kill someone else they could still do it even without a gun. We are humans and whenever we feel like we need to do something we find a way to do it. Without religon people would have found another excuse to have war.


This really is not a valid point. Religion has been the cause of 99% of all wars. It has definitely played it's role in ALL wars. Name me ONE war that was solely justified through means other than religion? There is none. Sure other things than religion might have played a part, but Religion has always been there, amidst the violence, claiming peace, claiming truth and justice, when it is nothing more than an instigator. People need a REASON to fight, even the most insane have their own reasons. The most common reason is religion, it is the thread that has linked all major violence ever to occur in the history of human kind. Your argument is flawed, you are saying that taking away one cause, a VERY major cause, will not get rid of all of the violence, which is true, BUT, you act as if there will be the SAME amount of violence without religion. This is simply untrue. 1+99=100, 1+0=1.

If a christian is homophobic then making him atheist won't nessisarily change it.


Christians are homophobic because a 2000 year old book of sheepherder myths tells them to be so. If they were an Atheist, they would have no reason to be homophobic.

Religon is also a cause for getting people to follow a moral standard.


This here apple is very good for you, it gives you a lot of nutrition. Oh, did I forget to mention? I spiked it with cyanide. Happy eats! Just because something may be partly good doesn't make it a good thing. Religion offers nothing that is not found anywhere else, and instead carries with it something that is found rarely otherwise.

also gathers people of a like belife and gives them hope.


Good for them. But when relgion preaches hatred against those in their little books, it is no longer just their choice, they are imposing it on others who have the same rights as them, and therefore forfeit any claim to the right to be left alone and delight in their personal delusions.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Religon isn't what causes wars, people do.


Religion is the reason they cause wars. A good person will do good things and a bad person will do bad things. But for a good person to do bad things, that takes religion.

If someone really wanted to kill someone else they could still do it even without a gun.


A gun is a tool. Religion is more like mind control, making people kill.

We are humans and whenever we feel like we need to do something we find a way to do it. Without religon people would have found another excuse to have war.


Oh really? "Yes, my king, why exactly are we invading this desert again? I mean this city is completely worthless. It doesn't have any resources we can use and is quite frankly far to far away to control..." "Well...Jubuz lived there." Remember that? So how would the Crusades happen without religion? A large army invaded a town that is absolutely worthless for no other reason than religion.

Religon is also a cause for getting people to follow a moral standard. If the laws arn't too important to you maybe religon is


If religion is the only thing keeping people up to the moral standard, you should be extremely afraid of them. Honestly, have you ever seen someone who avoided killing someone simply do to having a religion? And when they do "Turn to religion" it is typically to get pity or sympathy once they have already been caught. "Sure, I killed a dozen and was a serial rapist, but now I found Juzuz so you can let me out faster!"

It also gathers people of a like belife and gives them hope. Which is another thing people feel like they need.


Was it Karl Marx who stated religion is the opium of the people? Like opium, yes it can dull pain artificially for a temporary amount of time. But using it to often, to fully, or making a habit of it and you have a huge problem.

So even if religon is an outlet for things it doesn't make it bad.


It isn't an outlet for things, it corrupts and takes control. It is a horrible disease spread from parents to children for generations.

That makes it a tool. And tools arn't bad or good, they just do whatever job we make for them.


It isn't a tool, it is more like puppet strings. A tool can be anything from a gun to a hammer, serving the purpose of the human race. If religion is a tool, it is Frodo's ring, corrupting the user.

We conrol them and choose what to do with them.


If by "Them" you mean the general populace. You can point to a homosexual and say "That iz bad!" and when you are asked why you can say "BeCuZ Teh BiBel Zayz zo!" and somehow it is taken as ok, but without religion what reason can you have? With religion, you just have to say "Because the gods say so" and people will fallow you willingly to their doom. Without, you actually have to think of actual reasons.

If a christian is homophobic then making him atheist won't nessisarily change it.


No, but they will have to come up with a legitimate reason, they can't simply say it is wrong.

Sorry my post is so long, just my thoughts about the situation.


Its actually rather short.
dair5
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dair5
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Shepherd

I see what you guys mean, and your examples are very good but... I feel if there was no religon, in a couple of hundread years there would just be "groups of people" gathered to hate another "group of people" for whatever reason. Besides, while some segments of religon teach to hate, others teach to love and respect differences. I really don't see all parts of every religon being as twisted as you describe when while going to mass the priest stood and talked to us about how God loved you even if you were from another religon, and that we should love people from other religons too.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

I see what you guys mean, and your examples are very good but


Give some examples yourself, perhaps?

. I feel if there was no religon, in a couple of hundread years there would just be "groups of people" gathered to hate another "group of people" for whatever reason.


Then we would have a couple of hundred years of peace, which sounds like a good thing to me, even if your theory would be correct.

Besides, while some segments of religon teach to hate, others teach to love and respect differences.


Examples? I can see people running planes into buildings, I can't see any mass scale loving and respecting.

I really don't see all parts of every religon being as twisted as you describe when while going to mass the priest stood and talked to us about how God loved you even if you were from another religon, and that we should love people from other religons too.


Mass, meaning your Catholic? Maybe if you look closer and see that the church is basically a huge abuse coverage, or the fact that you still think we are going to hell, or that your church says to hate homosexuals, or not to wear condoms, or bombing abortion centers, or beating people to remove demos, or faith healing instead of medical science, or the IRA-Catholic fight, or when Hitler used your religion to kill millions, or anything on a huge list that I can state?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

If someone really wanted to kill someone else they could still do it even without a gun.


I wonder how many of these people who have blow themselves up, and killed others, if their religious beliefs had not first put it in their head to do these things to others and that they would somehow be rewarded in an afterlife? How many would not have followed into a war (even if the initial start was not religious) if they thought their deity wasn't backing it? How many would be less willing to throw their and other peoples lives away if they thought this life was all you get?
dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

Then we would have a couple of hundred years of peace, which sounds like a good thing to me, even if your theory would be correct.


But, wait. That's not my point. My point is that for whatever reason people really hate each other, they would still do it without religon. Example, civil war. It wasn't about religon, the problem was that they didn't relize what they were doing was wrong, scared of the blacks because they were different, and they had a lack of sympathy for them because they didn't see them as humans. If we could get certain christians to relize that homosexuals are the same as anyone else we wouldn't have a problem.
dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

I wonder how many of these people who have blow themselves up, and killed others, if their religious beliefs had not first put it in their head to do these things to others and that they would somehow be rewarded in an afterlife? How many would not have followed into a war (even if the initial start was not religious) if they thought their deity wasn't backing it? How many would be less willing to throw their and other peoples lives away if they thought this life was all you get?


You're right in this case. But couldn't we just enforce non extermist point of view on religon? It just seems to me that the ones who kill themselfs are extermists and the majority are perfectly sane.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

But, wait. That's not my point. My point is that for whatever reason people really hate each other, they would still do it without religon.


But they have to make an actual excuse. "Why exactly do you want me to strap this bomb to my back and run into that building" is hard to answer unless you lie like "Uhh... You will have lots of sex with virgins after you die if you do this!" rather than "I want you to".

Example, civil war. It wasn't about religon, the problem was that they didn't relize what they were doing was wrong, scared of the blacks because they were different, and they had a lack of sympathy for them because they didn't see them as humans.


No, it wasn't started because of religion. But they certainly used it to keep the slaves, inspire their troops, and generally involved it in the war. "Well the Bible says it is ok to have slaves, so we can have them! Well the bible says its ok to beat slaves (As long as you don't kill them in at least twenty four hours) so it must be ok!" and many such things where used to keep the slaves without feeling like ********.

If we could get certain christians to relize that homosexuals are the same as anyone else we wouldn't have a problem.


Good idea. Next we can go talk to the Taliban and say that we are all nice people and that Allah didn't actually mean to kill us, he was just using metaphor like they do with Yahweh. Good idea. Next we can convince insane people to bomb abortion centers. Whats next?
dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

But they have to make an actual excuse.


Theres a lot of reasons. It just needs to invole something they care about or you can trick them. A reason would be " do it or we'll kill your family." If I knew it would save my family I'd do it in a heartbeat. Or in the case of a slave you might have been told from birth that black people were animals, so naturally you would not have sympathy because you wouldn't regard them as people.

Good idea. Next we can go talk to the Taliban and say that we are all nice people and that Allah didn't actually mean to kill us, he was just using metaphor like they do with Yahweh. Good idea. Next we can convince insane people to bomb abortion centers. Whats next?


Ok, I guess my idea was just too optomistic. But you could be able to get at least some people to change their minds.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Theres a lot of reasons. It just needs to invole something they care about or you can trick them. A reason would be " do it or we'll kill your family." If I knew it would save my family I'd do it in a heartbeat


People have tried that before. But do you know what happens when you rule an entire nation by threatening like that? Revelation, really who would be on the side of this guy? He would be incapable of ruling enough people to keep a nation up. Unless he uses something else, like religion.

Or in the case of a slave you might have been told from birth that black people were animals, so naturally you would not have sympathy because you wouldn't regard them as people.


Or your religion might say so. Why don't we ask them?

Ok, I guess my idea was just too optomistic. But you could be able to get at least some people to change their minds.


Some people, sometimes, if your lucky and use another apple or stick possibly. But the bigger problems of insane fanatics shooting up anything from towers to abortion centers won't be fixed by such simple means.
dair5
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dair5
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Shepherd

Or your religion might say so. Why don't we ask them?


There are over 30,000 forms of christianity. My type doesn't say so.

But the bigger problems of insane fanatics shooting up anything from towers to abortion centers won't be fixed by such simple means.


But if these people would be okay with killing isn't that a bigger problem? I think they extremists should be targeted and not the religon they follow. If you're willing to selfishly kill for 72 virgins, then you have a serious problem. Besides most of the people of the religon wouldn't. I have a muslim friend who is ashamed of people like that.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

You're right in this case. But couldn't we just enforce non extermist point of view on religon? It just seems to me that the ones who kill themselfs are extermists and the majority are perfectly sane.


Who creates the environment that allows for the fanaticism to develop?

If you're willing to selfishly kill for 72 virgins, then you have a serious problem.


It's not selfish, they are doing as they believe their God has commanded. It's easy to justify such actions with religion. Take that away and such a mindset loses ground quickly.
dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

But this isn't even whole religons. It's small groups of people. If everyone thought that their God told them to kill then there would be a lot more deaths then currently. Most of the world is religous, and the reason our population is growing is because most of the world belives their God tells them not to kill.

dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

I think of it a little like this. America has done a lot of bad things, but that doesn't make it a bad country. It's filled with a lot of nice caring people. So I apply it to religon.

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