NOTE: This is not an anti religion post, simply a philosophical and age old debate.
Ok, so very very basically, here is an issue with the typical Christian view of God, a view shared by other religions, aside, however.
God is all good God is all powerful (omnipotent) God is all knowing
If God is all good, then why does he make evil things happen? Why does he create murderers and tsunamis?
Some say God creates us with the choice to do good and bad that we may have free will.
So, in this case God creates us without knowing if we'll choose to be good or bad people, or even if we will believe in him/her.
So God doesn't know if we're going to be good or bad, so God is not all knowing.
BUT - Imagine we still want to hold that he his all knowing, i.e he knows everything about everything. This means God creates us knowing that we're going to be good or bad people, this means that he condemns those he creates bad to a life of sin and ultimately hell, so he can't be all Good.
BUT - if we want to still hold that he is all good, then there must be another reason murderers and tsunamis exist, but what? Maybe God created the world, and is not powerful enough to intervene. Then God is no longer all-powerful. Either that or he is powerful enough to intervene, and simply doesn't want to, in which case he is not all good. What do you think about all this?
it's still a human force that limits the family's though, rather than God.
\\ But since god was more than capable to stop the man and KNEW the man was going to do this, it's like he was assisting the murder.
If you think about it, there is a lot worse that could happen then what is happening now. We have no clue what has not happened in human history that he has prevented. For example, he could have had a hand in the fall of Hitler, the death of all the terrorist leaders recently, even the death of Gadaffi.
So free will being hindered is now accepted? Also those are just deaths of people who were just fighting for a cause and Hitler prolly wasn't talked into killing himself by god since Hitler killed himself out of fear.
The actions of your ancestors are not your actions and shouldn't be treated that way.
I agree with that, that also made m relize another flaw in god knowing all, feeling curiosity. You can't be curious about something that you already know everything about so god can't have curiosity.
God acted out His righteous judgment by cursing all of creation.
.....Has anyone else noticed that god likes to "curse all" alot? Garden of Ede, tower of bable, the ark, and that city of sinners story.
Humans were the head of all creation, so it's perfectly just for God to curse all of creation, not just humanity. As for all of us suffering for Adam's sins, was a perfect person in a perfect place not a fair representative? Even if you cannot accept that, each of us sins, too.
In what way do you consider tham perfect? I actulay assums adam and eve were far from perfect since they ate the **** apple, you think that if they were perfect, that they would have some common sence to not trust the devil?
So free will being hindered is now accepted? Also those are just deaths of people who were just fighting for a cause and Hitler prolly wasn't talked into killing himself by god since Hitler killed himself out of fear.
Don't take it so literally to the point that God and Hitler had a nice little chat that ended with Hitler holding his pistol.
Being a pedant who specialises in history, I'm going off a bit here. Hitler killed himself out of fear, but also because there was nothing left for him to live for, his dream of a new Third Reich shattered beyond all hope.
They would live forever physically while being separated spiritually from God. God protected them from this fate by putting the tree of life out of reach.
I really don't see how having pain and death is good for us, actualy it hardens the case of his pettieness, If the humans start turning into gods, they will no longer believe in me. So he uses the factor of fear and pain to get obidience from the humans, once they were trying to take away the whip, he managed to make up the original sin and banish adam and eve.
I really don't see how having pain and death is good for us, actualy it hardens the case of his pettieness, If the humans start turning into gods, they will no longer believe in me. So he uses the factor of fear and pain to get obidience from the humans, once they were trying to take away the whip, he managed to make up the original sin and banish adam and eve.
Why are pain and death bad? They aren't good or bad, they're just things unless you perceive them to be. Pain alerts us to the evil things in life, it brings us to our senses such that we don't live our lives with our heads in the clouds. And death is a gift and a release; a person can only live that long before being weighed down by the world and tire of it.
Yes if God is how he is described in the Bible I would be against that God. Though if he's really a nice deity...
Perhaps you just have an overly shallow view of the God of the Bible because you don't want to understand Him as anything other than petty and malicious. You still didn't try to understand the Tower of Babel.
I actulay assums adam and eve were far from perfect since they ate the **** apple, you think that if they were perfect, that they would have some common sence to not trust the devil?
Well, the same trick still works today, doesn't it? The devil gave Eve the option to judge God's word herself, and she did. Isn't that exactly what you're doing here?
I really don't see how having pain and death is good for us, actualy it hardens the case of his pettieness, If the humans start turning into gods, they will no longer believe in me.
Pain and death is not good for us. God punished us with pain and death (like He said He would) for rebelling against Him. They were not turning into gods; it was Satan who deceived them by tempting them to try to be gods!
Pain gives us limitations. It is essential for survival. If you use it to inflict suffering on people, then essentially you are neglecting the natural purpose of pain.
What about leprosy? People born with leprosy feel no pain: maybe God punishes them mentally? If this is so, then God must therefore know the true feeling of the mental pain he is inflicting on others. Omnipotence=contradiction. He can feel pain.
Perhaps you just have an overly shallow view of the God of the Bible because you don't want to understand Him as anything other than petty and malicious.
Perhaps you don't realize the numerous and plentiful times in the Bible that God is a selfish, petty, malicious, contradicting *******. Not to mention mass murderer.
Pain gives us limitations. God has limitations if he can feel pain.
Nah, pain wouldn't be a limitation for an all powerful God if he felt it. He could still do whatever.
Experience isn't a prerequisite for knowledge. God wouldn't need to feel pain to understand it.
Also true, as this would fall under the All knowing.
However, just singling out these traits doesn't address the main point of this thread. You cannot have an all knowing, all powerful, and all loving God and also have free will and the devil exist.
However, just singling out these traits doesn't address the main point of this thread. You cannot have an all knowing, all powerful, and all loving God and also have free will and the devil exist.
I myself am an atheist, but consider this: life lasts between 70-90 years on average; the afterlife lasts for eternity. In the same way that you might allow a sibling to fail so he understands better than just being told he will fail, what if life is your proving ground in his eyes, where he allows you to fall, face the consequence(pain/Hell), then move onto Heaven where you will be better prepared for your failing. In many faiths, though I don't know for a fact that this applies to all divisions of Christianity, once the soul pays for it's sins in Hell, it is allowed to go on to Heaven.
God can't exist as an all powerful, all knowing and all loving God, if he was all loving and all knowing he must not have the power to destroy evil. If he was all loving and all powerful he must not not know that evil exists and if he was all powerful and all knowing he must not love us.
