ForumsWEPRWhy would got hate an atheist?

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Yodadude53
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Yodadude53
1,495 posts
Nomad

People always say that if you're an atheist, you're going to hell. This got me thinking. Why (if he exists) would he send me to an eternity of suffering in a fiery hole of despair? Doing this horrifying act just because I don't believe he exists. There was no evidence to support the fact he exists. I never did anything terribly wrong compared to the next guy. If god is real in this manner, he is a evil villianous character sending me to an eternity of suffering worse than death itself.

So what do you think?

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nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

Right. The point I was making is that if Christ was not a factor, then we would all be condemned. It's accurate for the atheist to say God sends people to Hell just for not believing.



Wasn't that my point...to which you said '' Not quite true''? Aren't you contradicting yourself?
Sir__Ila
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Sir__Ila
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Peasant

Wasn't that my point...to which you said '' Not quite true''? Aren't you contradicting yourself?

My bad, I misunderstood you. I thought by "morally rich life" you meant that a basically good person who does not believe would go to Hell. I would contesting the idea that any of us are basically good.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Grand Duke

My bad, I misunderstood you. I thought by "morally rich life" you meant that a basically good person who does not believe would go to Hell. I would contesting the idea that any of us are basically good.


Ah well....it's okay.
Yodadude53
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Yodadude53
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Nomad

Actually no. Even if you have led a morally-rich life, but don't accept Christ, it's a straight ticket to Hell.

I would find that quite unfair. Even if I was a very very good person while I was alive, I would go to hell just for not believing in something that really has no evidence? If god wants us to believe in him and sends us to eternal suffering if we don't, and if he supposedly created us, wouldn't he tell us that he was real?
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

I would find that quite unfair. Even if I was a very very good person while I was alive, I would go to hell just for not believing in something that really has no evidence? If god wants us to believe in him and sends us to eternal suffering if we don't, and if he supposedly created us, wouldn't he tell us that he was real?


Well, it's called taking a leap of faith; pardon the horrid pun.
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

What has my mother done to deserve a death at age of 45?
While this is pitiful that your mother died at such young age, you might look at it from another point of view, she's now in the better world with God. And she's probably praying for you to rejoin her eventually. There are questions of why some people die earlier than others, and while most of the time the reasons behind this are unclear, if we take all the preceding events as "the process of death", say why a person got cancer or why he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc, some of the reasoning was unravelled. Say, Antonietta Meo, aged 6.5, got bone cancer at 4 and was bound to the bed by her sickness. She wrote a series of letters with help from her mother, as she was not able to write while that young, and her mother wrote some of her sayings in the meantime. In one of the last records Antonietta said "I will be out of this world in less than 10 days. I should have been here for more, but St.Theresa of Child Jesus interceded for me, saying I have suffered enough."
So God made up some rules for us, but he is not supposed to follow them because nobody is going to punish him if he breaks them? That would fit in the human definition of a sickening and coward hypocrite.
Hmm. Literally correct, but such a definition is human-based, and can only be applied to humans.
I don't think anyone should suffer, if God was all-good he would let every soul enjoy their selves as much as they deserve it, but not eternal torment.
Well, let's say there's a child who tries to dabble in things unknown, while his dad says "don't do that, you'll get hurt". He continues to try, and eventually his dad lets him through so he will feel what does the dad mean under "get hurt". Depending on what the child did, this harm may be unseen at first, and develop later into addictiveness for example, sometimes the kid gets hurt right here right now, a blister or a cut, and he starts to cry. Then the dad can come and say "I have warned you, yet you continued. Now, see what you have done." It's about the same with God and us, while us being children. So people suffer from some people's sins as disobedience, we don't know who did wrong so we have to suffer, but all of the suffering is fruits of sins. So, if we will make efforts to sin less, we will make the world a better place, even if we might not see it becoming one.
And do i deserve to perish in hell for all eternity because God 'betrayed me'?
Hmmm, a hard thing to say to anyone, but sometimes God deprives us of something we depend on, if that dependance strays us from relying on God. Say, Gloria Polo was too dependant on money, even up to the point of worshipping money, so God made it so she went bankrupt, and then revealed this to her so she may tell others, as she did. There is some story where a poorman ended up in Purgatory because he was too attached to the only cat he had, despite a rich man entering Heaven because he wasn't attached to anything he had. About feeling "betrayed by God" - this thing is even harder to withstand, and I have yet to experience anything similar... I think if you look at the source of such a feeling, it can disappear if you find whatever good is hidden under the initial layer of sorrow. Still, AfterBurner0 said better than me, as he felt something like what you feel.
Funny how religion tries to shove down your throat that you're evil and that you HAVE to follow them or else you will be punished eternally. Sounds like a scare tactic to me.
Funny how an atheist takes the letters apart and finds lines and curves, and says "I HAVE to write like this or no one will understand me" and calls scary tactics. You Kasic seem to remain on the relationship level of "obey or be punished" with everyone around, not just religion. So you have to grow up yourself first, before you will be able to encounter benefits of mutual trust.
in my opinion a bad deed is something that hurts other people (if it has no reason). not believeing in god and many other "bad" things in the bible arent in my definition of bad.
Yesterday I have encountered an interesting interpretation of "eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil", that is &quotossessing and altering what's good and what's evil". You are clearly naming something good and naming something bad, and judging yourself on your own merits. Sure enough, if one sets up the merits himself, he will be good in his own eyes, but God does not look at people depending on their views of life, good and evil, God has set out what's good and what's evil, and since He is the creator of the universe, He knows that for us, what is good and what is evil. Contradicting this definition will never do good.
The Bible is not proof. You can't use the thing claiming something as it's own proof.
Now. Let's use your logic. By this logic you don't exist. You haven't displayed enough proof for me to believe you exist. You saying "here I am" is no self-proof of you existing. Others say you exist, but I don't believe them as well. I have never seen you, you have never given me proof that you exist, so why should I bother with you?
That just sounds completely ridiculous and would seem to go against any free will argument put forth
Huh? You have the ability to judge, but have no right to judge. This does not touch free will at all. And about "ridiculous", go debunk me of you not existing by the very same argument I put forth right above your quote.
And if you don't accept Christ, but still do good deeds because it's a good deed your chances of going to hell are slightly lower than going to Heaven? I find that idiotic.
Well... You have to get the basis of what's good and what's bad from somewhere first, if you are driven by the correct settings of good and evil, and are not trying to pervert them in any manner, then you will likely accept the source of that morale if presented fully. While this presentation is highly personal, it's there. It's a great mystery of what happens with a human's soul at the verge of his death, but several people report of what is called NDEs that involve meeting with God and being asked for acceptance God as their God, in different forms but same sense. I believe that everyone will be granted a chance to accept God in His fullness, before being actually judged, however, this belief might not be common or official... I'm yet young as a Christian.
Well, it's called taking a leap of faith; pardon the horrid pun.
Actually, a leap of faith is EXACTLY this, and no pun is actually made.
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
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Blacksmith

God does command worship, and He deserves it.


No-one commands worship, no-one deserves it.

Mage, you are not God.


How do you know, maybe he is your god testing your faith!
And in my books, he is close enough ;P

[quote]Funny how religion tries to shove down your throat that you're evil and that you HAVE to follow them or else you will be punished eternally. Sounds like a scare tactic to me.


It isn't a scare tactic it's simply what Christians believe.[/quote]

And why is it believed, because its a blatant scare tactic!
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Grand Duke

Well... You have to get the basis of what's good and what's bad from somewhere first, if you are driven by the correct settings of good and evil, and are not trying to pervert them in any manner, then you will likely accept the source of that morale if presented fully. While this presentation is highly personal, it's there. It's a great mystery of what happens with a human's soul at the verge of his death, but several people report of what is called NDEs that involve meeting with God and being asked for acceptance God as their God, in different forms but same sense. I believe that everyone will be granted a chance to accept God in His fullness, before being actually judged, however, this belief might not be common or official... I'm yet young as a Christian.


I respectfully refuse the chance. '


Now. Let's use your logic. By this logic you don't exist. You haven't displayed enough proof for me to believe you exist. You saying "here I am" is no self-proof of you existing. Others say you exist, but I don't believe them as well. I have never seen you, you have never given me proof that you exist, so why should I bother with you?


The Bible is a collection of texts presented together, written by Roman-era churchmen; there is no ''actual'' proof of God. Show me a picture of God. Then I might believe. I'm not believing in something that has to be taken by a dramatic leap of faith.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

You Kasic seem to remain on the relationship level of "obey or be punished" with everyone around, not just religion.


I'm not on that level at all. I am just plainly pointing out that religion claims if you don't follow it you're punished for all eternity.

Now. Let's use your logic. By this logic you don't exist. You haven't displayed enough proof for me to believe you exist. You saying "here I am" is no self-proof of you existing. Others say you exist, but I don't believe them as well. I have never seen you, you have never given me proof that you exist, so why should I bother with you?


Except for the fact that I'm obviously responding to your comments in a clear way that shows it is me, and not through some random indirect means that happen on their own and are attributed to God.
vesperbot
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vesperbot
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Nomad

Except for the fact that I'm obviously responding to your comments in a clear way that shows it is me, and not through some random indirect means that happen on their own and are attributed to God.
These are not enough, there can be a special machine with a multitude of ants and clever rigging, that's writing answers and attributes them to Kasic (thanks to Pratchett ). There can be another human, I know there are some more people than I see, who can say this is Kasic, and I cannot be sure even in that it's the single person that writes all the responses. Etc. Actually, if the world itself is formed through a multitude of accidents, as the current theory states, then even if it's you, you are an accident. I just know I have been created and I know that there's God who created me, while you are living as an accident and that sort of things.

In fact, this logic somewhat resembles the logic of why you cannot prove your own sanity if named insane once, just "I'm here" is questioned instead of "I'm sane". It's easier to argue against the former while being physically distant from whatever place Kasic can be, so I am using the Internet to initiate this discussion.

Well, this is actually an absurd dialogue, but it's so because I believe in that it's actually you who writes all of these. And I have started this because I want you to understand that you have to believe someone (or trust someone, in case of word games) to communicate with him. I wonder though, why such a belief disappears when someone starts speaking of God or other supernatural experience. Even if I say "I have seen a campfire in the skies, that was half a sky wide" you might believe me even if I won't have a proof of any kind, which was the case if our conversation would take place a hundred years ago. But a concept as simple as God throws you into shell defence stance spiked with complete denial and refusal. I just don't get it.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

These are not enough, there can be a special machine with a multitude of ants and clever rigging, that's writing answers and attributes them to Kasic (thanks to Pratchett ).


See, this is just a stupid counter. There is no purpose for anyone to make such a machine, nor a way to train all the ants.

There can be another human, I know there are some more people than I see, who can say this is Kasic, and I cannot be sure even in that it's the single person that writes all the responses.


No, you can't be 100% sure, but this goes for everything as well. Even if you saw me type it out, you can't say that every time it is just me as you are not there.

Etc. Actually, if the world itself is formed through a multitude of accidents, as the current theory states, then even if it's you, you are an accident.


Another stupid response.

I just know I have been created and I know that there's God who created me, while you are living as an accident and that sort of things.


That's what you believe. You don't know. There's quite a difference.

And I have started this because I want you to understand that you have to believe someone (or trust someone, in case of word games) to communicate with him


Yes, you do. However, we can base this trust on past experiences and meetings with other people. With God you cannot do this as you can't meet him until you die.

Even if I say "I have seen a campfire in the skies, that was half a sky wide" you might believe me even if I won't have a proof of any kind, which was the case if our conversation would take place a hundred years ago. But a concept as simple as God throws you into shell defence stance spiked with complete denial and refusal. I just don't get it.


Perhaps because this isn't 2000 years ago and we know better now? Perhaps because we can examime the Bible and find what was previously claimed to be solid truth is now preached to be metaphors in an attempt to cover the church's metaphorical ***?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

Now. Let's use your logic. By this logic you don't exist. You haven't displayed enough proof for me to believe you exist. You saying "here I am" is no self-proof of you existing. Others say you exist, but I don't believe them as well. I have never seen you, you have never given me proof that you exist, so why should I bother with you?


If we are to accept that the Bible is the word of God because it says it's the word of God we might as well accept what this napkin says as well based on that same reason.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/atheistjokes/napkin_religion.jpg
Maverick4
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Maverick4
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Peasant

If we are to accept that the Bible is the word of God because it says it's the word of God we might as well accept what this napkin says as well based on that same reason.


That being said, should we all become atheist because that doesn't happen to be written down anywhere?
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

should we all become atheist because that doesn't happen to be written down anywhere?


do you see atheists as a group? like other religions or cults?
Maverick4
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Maverick4
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Peasant

do you see atheists as a group? like other religions or cults?


Thats irrelevant. If there is no evidence to proove Christianity, than I have yet to see any evidence that prooves Atheism. To believe in one thing, simply because you believe that something else is illogical.
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