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nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

Since this topic hasn't been popping up much, and since the old threads are all so cluttered up, I took the liberty of creating this new one.

So yes, someone asked me for sources about my claims that 1500 species of animals practice homosexual behaviour? Here.


Source 1

Source 2

Now on to one of the sub questions. Is it natural? Well, someone mentioned that it wasn't natural only for humans. Now, why this discrimination? If the Gods of various religions keep throwing and creating people who are homosexual, either a) They're bad factory operators or b) Something is fishy with whatever anti-gay talk religious conservatives swear is sacred.

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Hypermnestra
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Hypermnestra
26,390 posts
Nomad

Two) Nichodemus, I find your BIBLICAL name quite unffiting for everything in the Bible you've gone against.

OK, I swear this is the last post. I usually don't do this!
I believe that's called ad hominem, and it's not cool.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

OK, I swear this is the last post. I usually don't do this!
I believe that's called ad hominem, and it's not cool.


Yes it is. I'm an atheist, and I feel insulted to be told I can't use such a name because apparently it has religious connotations that I have ''gone'' against.


That is incorrect. Animals that mate with there own gender are not really the same gender.


Any evidence? As far as the evidence I have given is concerned, scientists worldwide have stated such animals copulating with each other, of the same sex. Unless of course you mean having a penis now is being female, and having a vagina is being a male.

In a difficult environment animals will switch genders. The only animals that do that a "unisex" which means they aren't male or female. Or, they are "bisex" which means they can be a male the first day and a female the second. Once this switch has accured the animal usually stays that gender.


I am well aware that animals switch gender, but out of the 1500 animals listed, only a small minority can. Unless you're telling me elephants, giraffes, penguins, dolphins, lions and swans can switch gender.

In biology, hermaphrodites are generally invertebrate animals. None of those I have listed above is an invertebrate.

Furthermore, if you have actually read up before posting, you would have found out that most of the animals that can undergo a sex change are fish like clownfish.

See, when God created the Earth he was thinking. Those birds can impregnate themselves because of hormones. Humans make both male and female hormones. In the males the male hormone out-weighs the female hormones and vice-versa. These female birds can get themselves pregnant by increasing their male hormones and thus they can fertilize themselves. This also happens with those aquatic shrimp, Sea Monkeys. As you can see, God had a plan for everything.


A) I find it hard to believe you can actually claim to ''read'' the Almighty's thoughts. That smacks of egotistic behaviour and assumptions to me.

B) Male hormones are different from sperm. Male hormones are things like testosterone, which does not contain genetic material such as that in sperm.

Testosterone is the male version of sex hormone, secreted mainly by testis (also from adrenal cortex, though in very small amout). It contributes to the sex characteristics of male and essential for spermatogenesis.

Semen is the fluid that is released through the penis during orgasm. Semen is made up of fluid and of sperm. The fluid comes from the prostate, seminal vesicle and other sex glands. The sperm are manufactured in the testicles. The seminal fluid helps transport the sperm during orgasm. Seminal fluid contains sugar as an energy source for sperm. A female animal cannot suddenly develop testicles unless it is one of the aforementioned species that can undergo sex changes, a minute number.

Conclusion, testosterone and sperm although related, are COMPLETELY different.


So I suggest you read up on your basic science before coming back. How about that?
sensanaty
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sensanaty
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Nomad

D@mn Nicho, your Singaporean side of you is really reflecting now!

One) Most of your questions would be solved if you looked in the Bible under the Liviticus 35 area.


I have looked into Levictus 35, and have found only 27 chapters, as Hypermenstra has said a few posts back. And also, claiming that if you read a chapter of the Bible will answer your questions on Homosexuality is ridiculous. Atleast, to non-Christians it is.

Not to go off topic with religion and sexual facts, I say anyone who "hates" or is "disgusted" by homosexuals should be made to hang out with 3 or 4 of them, they're quite amusing company
thebluerabbit
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thebluerabbit
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Farmer

If we can make the Bible say what ever we wish it to say it becomes completely useless as any sort of guide or source of information.


which is why i dont think we should look for guidance or information in it.

It matters when one's actions are dictated by those beliefs.


as long as you dont hurt other people i dont think it matters.

Three) You, Nichodemus, said earlier that animals of the same gender will sometimes mate when there are difficulties in population or other circumstances. That is incorrect. Animals that mate with there own gender are not really the same gender. In a difficult environment animals will switch genders. The only animals that do that a "unisex" which means they aren't male or female. Or, they are "bisex" which means they can be a male the first day and a female the second. Once this switch has accured the animal usually stays that gender. With the two female birds you were talking about in one of the first few pages, there's a trick to that one too. See, when God created the Earth he was thinking. Those birds can impregnate themselves because of hormones. Humans make both male and female hormones. In the males the male hormone out-weighs the female hormones and vice-versa. These female birds can get themselves pregnant by increasing their male hormones and thus they can fertilize themselves. This also happens with those aquatic shrimp, Sea Monkeys. As you can see, God had a plan for everything.


look at your last sentence and change bible with wiki or google. i honestly stoped reading in the middle...

As you can see, God had a plan for everything.


yes, this is why we live in this perfect peaceful world :3

anyway, back to what i believe in. i look at the torah as a version of what happened there and what i believe in. this is why the only thing that matters to me there is the general story of what happened back then and not how it can or should affect our lives today.

since every person can take it differently i use my own morals to act
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

D@mn Nicho, your Singaporean side of you is really reflecting now!


Sorry, what did you mean haha? :3
sensanaty
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sensanaty
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Nomad

Sorry, what did you mean haha? :3


I meant your severe knowledge in the field of basic biology haha. I believe you know far more than the basics, eh?
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

I meant your severe knowledge in the field of basic biology haha. I believe you know far more than the basics, eh?


I used to, but I kind of puked it all out after I quite bio last year.

Though it all boils down to one important lesson, your bio classes. What you have, and what she/he/it has. That's all that we can apply, just to get on the cheeky side of things!
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

i got just 1 question.

out of the 1500 animals listed


how you get this number?

according to this wiki page. there are already 5000 different species of birds.
and this wiki page. gives links to sub cattegory animals then listed.
my guessing is that your 1500 is missing a few zero's =P
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

1st this = this
2nd this = this

sensanaty
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sensanaty
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Nomad

my guessing is that your 1500 is missing a few zero's =P


That's not that much of a problem, it just proves that a lot of animals can be homosexual. And why shouldn't they? It's all mater of genes and such.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Grand Duke

according to this wiki page. there are already 5000 different species of birds.
and this wiki page. gives links to sub cattegory animals then listed.
my guessing is that your 1500 is missing a few zero's =P


Link for animals who are not afraid to come out of the closet.


I was listing the animals who were proven to engage in homosexual activity, not the total number of animals. Hope that clarifies stuff?
Strop
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Strop
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Bard

Following up a formal complaint:

I believe that's called ad hominem, and it's not cool.


We call out ad hominems because they're a fallacious form of argumentation... regarding the incident in question on page 23, I wasn't sure that it was part of the argument (if it was then it shouldn't be), and even if it wasn't it's not relevant to the thread anyway, so obviously try not to do it again.
kingofkings1
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kingofkings1
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Nomad

I dont mean to offend anyone by saying this, but I think that homosexuality IN HUMANS is unnatural and wrong. Men are meant to have sexual intercourse with women, whether it is for pleasure, or for procreational purposes. God, (or gods for other religions), made man in his image, but it doesnt mean he, she, they can control what the person thinks. Maybe. maybe not. We might find it all out when we die, or not.

Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
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Jester

You say homosexuality in humans is unnatural and wrong. Why us and not the rest of the known species that practice homosexuality? Aren't we just primates with a much higher intelligence? Is it just from this that we are considered "above" other species, or is it from our religions and/or our superiority complex?

You then say we may find it all out when we die or not. First, I have to say this has nothing to do with homosexuality, how we view it, and why it is viewed as such. Secondly, this is an overly-trite comment; nobody can find anything out when we die, because we would be dead. Unless we then move unto the issue of souls and higher states of being, in which case is an entirely different topic.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

I dont mean to offend anyone by saying this, but I think that homosexuality IN HUMANS is unnatural and wrong.


Why would humans be the exception?

Men are meant to have sexual intercourse with women, whether it is for pleasure, or for procreational purposes.


Actually he started with the idea for Adam to get it on with one of the other animals. But since this didn't suit Adam's taste God went with the woman idea instead.

God, (or gods for other religions), made man in his image, but it doesnt mean he, she, they can control what the person thinks.


This might be a topic for another thread but why would God be a he? The definition of being male is the gender that produces sperm. If God was just a he, God would then have to be limited to this function. But God is suppose to be all powerful. So God would also have to have the ability to produce and egg like a female. However this would make God a hermaphrodite. Of course it makes no sense for God to have any gender what so ever if we are regarding gender roles as a sole function of reproduction since there is only a singular God in the Abrahamic religions.
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