So, uh, yeah, the title pretty much says it. Lots of topics turn into religion debates, so this is meant for that. Mine is Atheist. Feel free to oppose, but I'll oppose your post, too.
If I don't believe, why would I have to put up with Him? I don't want to put up with a God whose religion dictates that non-believers like me need to burn for eternity.
you have to put up with him because even though you don't, some of your friends may. What I meant when I posted that is you have to put up with the people around you believing in him. what you say to them may or may not influence them (I will go off the assumption that it most likely won't in this case) to change their beliefs to conform to what you want. yeah, you can get new friends, but nothing beats the original.
That is still based on the assumption that God exists.
because I freaking believe in him nicho, and I told you that you just have to put up with me believing in him, and that way you don't need to conform or force your influence on others.
sorry, work put a lot of hatred into me today (christmas is both the best, and worst time of the year. It's bad for those who have to stomach the 24/7 holiday crap that comes from holiday commercialization).
I will put up with it in my friends who don't try to force me into belief as I have always done, but I won't stand friends who tell me repeatedly to convert, which sad to say have been more than I would like to tolerate.
I will only tolerate it if religious people do not tell unbelievers that they are going to hell, need to be converted, or are somehow inferior. I will also not put up with religion if it tells me that a gay person is a monster, or that science is somehow vile, such as the condom crisis and in so doing, cause the wanton deaths of many (Smallpox vaccine controversy, look it up). I will also not tolerate religion if it preaches hate, such as in Bosnia, and if people randomly use God's name to justify crimes and acts of terror. In a nutshell, I will only tolerate religious folk if they keep it to themselves, and doesn't affect the lives of others detrimentally.
I'm actually starting to get a little annoyed that whenever somebody asks "what do you believe?" there is always either the bigoted religious person, or some warhawk atheist who has to throw the thread into another never ending debate. We all know what you both believe, and no ammount of debating on this Freaking forum will ever change any of that.
you both keep arguing about how god can or cannot exist
Open-minded people may have their views challenged (if not outright changed) by things they read online (or elsewhere). If you find your views challenged and can meet the challenge, you should end up strengthened in your beliefs. I've always thought this to be part of the reason why people bother debating - they like to be right and to be acknowledged in their being right.
I'm not arguing about whether or not a god can exist, though, being agnostic and all. The only reason that discussion went on for so long is cos Mage don't understand why I'd choose to keep a small faith in something undefined and I can't explain it in a way that makes sense.
Zophia, everyone knows to not debate with Mage on this, because he doesn't care to do a proper scientific debate anyway, however much he claims to be solely scientific. Might be the logical positivism talking, might just be the stubborn "Arguing on the internet" thing.
Yes, dear OP, I do have a religion. I consider myself a Christian, though I am sure any extremist Christian will claim I am not, and any extremist Atheist might consider me a blockhead for saying such a thing. I also consider religion/belief or lack thereof to be a private decision/matter, and as such it should not be something others should try and change because they don't agree, no matter where they come from. There is no right or wrong in this matter, which is what I enjoy about this modern world.
Zophia, everyone knows to not debate with Mage on this, because he doesn't care to do a proper scientific debate anyway, however much he claims to be solely scientific. Might be the logical positivism talking, might just be the stubborn "Arguing on the internet" thing.
As to opposed, you know, saying "Don't listen to person X" I prefer Mage's arguments and links, mister "Don't listen to Mage, I don't like how he argues!"
There is no right or wrong in this matter, which is what I enjoy about this modern world.
How exactly is there no right or wrong about it? Last I checked, reality was science, there is only one way everything is. This doesn't work with everything else, so why should it work with religion?
"I don't believe in gravity! You can't prove it is holding us to the earth!" "Well that is okay. You are not wrong, since there is no right or wrong on the matter. Go ahead and believe what you want."
"Two plus two is five thousand five hundred and fifty five!" "Well that is okay. There is no right or wrong on the matter"
I don't see those arguments working anywhere else.
As to opposed, you know, saying "Don't listen to person X" I prefer Mage's arguments and links, mister "Don't listen to Mage, I don't like how he argues!"
When did I say I don't like how Mage argues? I think Mage is a smart guy with good arguments and good points, I just doubt his paradigm fits properly with anyone that isn't a logical positivist like himself, which makes him look like he doesn't listen to others, because it doesn't fit his paradigm. As opposed to you, who have a reputation of just arguing to argue.
How exactly is there no right or wrong about it? Last I checked, reality was science, there is only one way everything is. This doesn't work with everything else, so why should it work with religion?
Because religion is faith/belief. It isn't science, and thus you cannot use science to prove or disprove it. It would be like explaining a recipe by using math.
"I don't believe in gravity! You can't prove it is holding us to the earth!" "Well that is okay. You are not wrong, since there is no right or wrong on the matter. Go ahead and believe what you want."
"Two plus two is five thousand five hundred and fifty five!" "Well that is okay. There is no right or wrong on the matter"
Since when have religious people ever uttered such statements? It's preposterous to use such examples to somehow prove that religion cannot coexist with science. Religion and science are not mutually exclusive.
314d1, what have we told you about doing such stupid and twisted forms of logic. the things you compared are only remotely similar.
Because religion is faith/belief. It isn't science, and thus you cannot use science to prove or disprove it. It would be like explaining a recipe by using math.
couldn't have said it better myself.
in terms of MGW: I like how he posts, other than the fact that he is quick to hit on a religious person's belief, he's a rather cool dude.
It isn't science, and thus you cannot use science to prove or disprove it. It would be like explaining a recipe by using math.
You could possibly try by using social sciences (looking into why humans believe, perhaps), but it would still be like explaining a recipe for a sandwich with detail on the composition of the cells in the salad and whatnot. It's doable, but not necessarily efficient.
I also generally likes Mage's ability to find and contribute sources that back up his views, but his persistent misunderstanding and lack of apparent comprehension for what I was saying got tediously annoying (because I had nothing I was trying to convince him of or say was true - I just stated my view and he started arguing it). Thus ending the discussion until y'all dug it back up.
Because religion is faith/belief. It isn't science, and thus you cannot use science to prove or disprove it. It would be like explaining a recipe by using math.
I do take issue with the use of faith, for reason I have stated else where and won't get into here for now. As for it solely being belief it does often touch on points where science can be applied.
I also generally likes Mage's ability to find and contribute sources that back up his views, but his persistent misunderstanding and lack of apparent comprehension for what I was saying got tediously annoying (because I had nothing I was trying to convince him of or say was true - I just stated my view and he started arguing it).
Yeah, sorry about that. I wasn't intending it to be an argument. I was more trying to understand your position and I think we just kept talking past each other on key points.
In the past my Ancestors have had religions, mostly Protestant, I really don't think religion is necessary. Think of it this way: When we die, there's either not going to be a heaven and hell or there is. We can't stop ourselves from dying, so people who are afraid to die can't grasp the concept of there being nothing after death so they hold up a religion which states the opposite. Yeah there might be a heaven and a hell, but if there isn't, why should I be worried about dying. What's to be scared of? It's going to happen someday, and I'm going to be dead and I won't think about it because I won't exist anymore. It's a hard concept to think of, to think of yourself not existing. Whether there is a God and regardless of there being a heaven and hell, some people...don't believe in any of it. They're not Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Protestants, Catholics, Athiests...They just live life and go on without thinking about death and afterlifes and being holy. Those are the type of people who in their mind haven't made up the decision yet if God is real and want to. They aren't atheists, and they're not agnostic either. They just really don't care about evolution, creation, heaven, hell, gods, and any of the other stuff. They're unaffiliated completely. you could call me one of those kind of people. All I really want to do is let people see past holding personal beliefs that they can easily get offended by and just enjoy life
Yeah there might be a heaven and a hell, but if there isn't, why should I be worried about dying. What's to be scared of?
Dying and returning as a lower form of life like a politician? Though I don't think reincarnation really changes your statement any.
Whether there is a God and regardless of there being a heaven and hell, some people...don't believe in any of it. They're not Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Protestants, Catholics, Athiests...They just live life and go on without thinking about death and afterlifes and being holy. Those are the type of people who in their mind haven't made up the decision yet if God is real and want to. They aren't atheists, and they're not agnostic either.
If they don't believe there is a god that would make them atheist. I doesn't require a statement of disbelief. A person can even go back and forth between belief and non belief. Agnostic is in a similar vein. If someone doesn't know of spiritual matters, even if it's from a lack of concern of it, they are agnostic.
