Forums → WEPR → Heaven and Hell?

And can some one define what a soul is I never got that concept and how does your soul help in any way >.>?

It's a rather ill defined thing. Generally it's regarded as an incorporeal essence that grants life and consciousness. It has had other attributes depending on who you speak with.

I too am A Catholic But i am very unsure of my views on heaven and hell

will all sorta of start again as someone else, sort of a continous circle of life.

I hate to break it to you, but you're not technically a Catholic in that case - at least not a 'roper' one. To be considered Catholic, you must believe all the necessary tenets of the faith. So, while you might profess to be a Catholic, the Church itself would not include you amongst its members.

And can some one define what a soul is I never got that concept and how does your soul help in any way >.>?

I think there are 3 key features of the soul in Western theology:

1) Immaterial: as contrasted with matter; thus it neither takes up space nor has mass

2) Everlasting: is capable of independent existence and its existence is permanent (although not necessarily infinite).

3) Necessary for human life: without the soul, a human ceases to be... well, a human. There might be biological definitions that do not account for a soul. But Western theologians would claim that a human body must possess a soul for it to count as human, in a theological sense. Whether or not animals have souls, on this account, is irrelevant.

hate to break it to you, but you're not technically a Catholic in that case - at least not a 'roper' one. To be considered Catholic, you must believe all the necessary tenets of the faith. So, while you might profess to be a Catholic, the Church itself would not include you amongst its members.

I am sorry but to be a Catholic you have to belive in Jesus mainly and God. You don't have to belive in everything. God will always love you. I am sure most Catholics are a little unsure of thier faith. That is why we have to learn more in school in religion and go to church.

I am sorry but to be a Catholic you have to belive in Jesus mainly and God. You don't have to belive in everything. God will always love you. I am sure most Catholics are a little unsure of thier faith. That is why we have to learn more in school in religion and go to church.

Eh? To be Catholic, don't you have to believe in the power of the Pope, Saints, Marry, literal communion, and all of the things that define being "Catholic"?

I am sorry but to be a Catholic you have to belive in Jesus mainly and God. You don't have to belive in everything.

That's what it takes to be a Christian, but Catholicism has certain beliefs that are called de fide dogmas of the Church. These are certain beliefs and sacraments of the Church that a parishioner must partake of to technically be a Catholic. Those who reject these beliefs are, by default, considered heretics.
While such heresy is not a guaranteed ticket to hell, it is nonetheless a separation from the Church itself. There's a well-known Catholic saying, attributed to St. Augustine:

Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand.

In other words, the Church is right in virtue of its existence and knowledge base. You must accept the dogma of the Church in order to have a proper understanding of God.

Eh? To be Catholic, don't you have to believe in the power of the Pope, Saints, Marry, literal communion, and all of the things that define being "Catholic"?

Yes that is right but the person said that he is only unsure of HEAVEN AND HELL not his beliefs. So he is a Catholic Heaven and Hell is mentioned a little in the Bible the main focus is Jesus and about the Christains religion in the time Jesus lived and what challenges they had to face and how they grew.

Yes that is right but the person said that he is only unsure of HEAVEN AND HELL not his beliefs.

Belief in heaven and hell are also de fide dogmas of the Church. In fact, the Church is quite specific regarding the theological properties of these spiritual realms.

Yes that is right but the person said that he is only unsure of HEAVEN AND HELL not his beliefs. So he is a Catholic Heaven and Hell is mentioned a little in the Bible the main focus is Jesus and about the Christains religion in the time Jesus lived and what challenges they had to face and how they grew.

Would it now? Wouldn't you have to believe the Catholic thoughts on heaven and hell, not what you personally think, by definition? The Bible doesn't matter to Christians, it is what their leader tells them. So it would really go down to what the Popes think.

why not outwaighting the bad things with good things?

- According to most Christ based religions it is agreed upon that nothing you can do will affect your placement, whether it be heaven or hell. Think of it this way. You are in a square room with ordinary furnishings. What could you possibly do to show God (the creator of you and the room) that you deserve to be with him forever? Sing, Dance, Act? Be kind? Generous? Help a million people in every single way to where there lives are perfect?
And if you did all of these things? Nothing. No acts: great, small, or indifferent. Could possibly show God that you DESERVE to be in heaven.
It is only by God's choosing that anyone gets to go to heaven. If you have ever once heard of God, Jesus, or the Holy Ghost; then you were called by God to know him and join him in heaven.
Plain and Simple.

According to most Christ based religions it is agreed upon that nothing you can do will affect your placement, whether it be heaven or hell.

That absolutely false. In fact, the only Christian denomination I can think of where that applies is Calvinism. And you don't see too many Calvinists walking around these days.
Just one example: denouncing God. In this case, you could have heard of God and then denouncing him. Most Christians would say this is an act that (if not repented) would be a guarantee to hell.

Are you a Calvinist? Or some other kind of determinist faith? Just curious.

- According to most Christ based religions it is agreed upon that nothing you can do will affect your placement, whether it be heaven or hell

"Most"? Up to modern times you where able to just buy your loved one's way into heaven through penance, many sects still believe that you can be "Saved by good works"...

Think of it this way. You are in a square room with ordinary furnishings. What could you possibly do to show God (the creator of you and the room) that you deserve to be with him forever? Sing, Dance, Act? Be kind? Generous? Help a million people in every single way to where there lives are perfect?

Wait, what? When you are in a room, not a perfect room just an ordinary room, you would start attempting to please the architect, who is apparently your parent, and try to deserve to be with him? I think that would make you strange. Especially if you just assumed he existed, without any proof.

And if you did all of these things? Nothing. No acts: great, small, or indifferent. Could possibly show God that you DESERVE to be in heaven.

So wait, Hitler, who was a Christian and genocidal maniac, gets into heaven because killing millions of people isn't considered big enough to get kicked out of heaven?

It is only by God's choosing that anyone gets to go to heaven. If you have ever once heard of God, Jesus, or the Holy Ghost; then you were called by God to know him and join him in heaven.

...So this Yawheh is like Dr.Mangela? He decides who gets to go to the work camp and who dies? How is that fair?

...So this Yawheh is like Dr.Mangela? He decides who gets to go to the work camp and who dies? How is that fair?

not really since those jews got a small break before burning forever in hell (if that is true). sometimes makes you think who was worse

That absolutely false. In fact, the only Christian denomination I can think of where that applies is Calvinism

Yes, Rereading that I see my error now. What I meant was the bible does not state or imply in any way at any time that what we do (be they good works or evil deeds) will get us into heaven. "What you reap you will sow" and "Store up for yourselves riches in heaven" (as your arguments may be) do not imply that what we do there will have bearing but that it is the christian thing to do and therefor should inherently be strived for. [Striving "to be like christ" aka: Christianity]

"Most"? Up to modern times you where able to just buy your loved one's way into heaven through penance, many sects still believe that you can be "Saved by good works"...

Yes, I said most. Every Calvinist Denomination based believes this.
To clarify I am excluding the Roman Catholic Church because they do not follow the teachings of God only. It is widely known that if the pope were to say "I am perfect, now be like me" it is introduced to the Followers as UNDENIABLE FACT, not to be contested.

Wait, what? When you are in a room, not a perfect room just an ordinary room, you would start attempting to please the architect, who is apparently your parent, and try to deserve to be with him? I think that would make you strange.

This was for Christian benefit. Since you obviously are not. I find it to be a lost cause explaining it to you. (Do try to understand my point of view, as I try to understand yours. Don't call me strange or other offensive terms. Thanks)

Especially if you just assumed he existed, without any proof.

I do have proof. You just can't accept ancient artifacts as proof apparently. And that, is not my problem. Believe what you like.

Hitler, who was a Christian

Where are you getting your information? He openly regected any ties to faith multiple times.

because killing millions of people isn't considered big enough to get kicked out of heaven?

If he did not truly feel sorry and repent of his sins. Then, no, he did not go to heaven (you don't get kicked out, you just don't make it in to begin with)

How is that fair?

Who said: life, death, heaven, or hell, was fair?
Where in the bible does it say "Everyone gets into heaven."
No it says, "All are welcome at the table of life" Which means that you can come to the table of God and receive everlasting life, if you have the means to (aka: hear about him, or seek him out yourself)

Wait, what? When you are in a room, not a perfect room just an ordinary room, you would start attempting to please the architect, who is apparently your parent, and try to deserve to be with him? I think that would make you strange. Especially if you just assumed he existed, without any proof.

The person trying to please this "architect/parent" is not dealing with the actual person but there own thoughts. We are capable of imagining a full conversation with another person we have never met. You can try it for your self, try holding a conversation with President Obama in your head. You can imagine what you would ask him and can even construct what he will say back to you in response.

With a religious mindset they have taken this ability and fooled themselves into thinking they are really holding that conversation. They can begin to construct what that imagined being wants, likes and dislikes. Often drawing on their own likes and dislikes. So the answer to the question as to what would please this "architect/parent" is really what would please us.

I do have proof. You just can't accept ancient artifacts as proof apparently. And that, is not my problem. Believe what you like.

Which ancient artifacts are you speaking of? As we have been over in another thread there have been plenty of hoaxes. Even if the artifact is legitimate we then have to ask if the connection is accurate. In other words is it really proof of what you think it is?

Where are you getting your information? He openly regected any ties to faith multiple times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views

Who said: life, death, heaven, or hell, was fair?

Why should such a being who intentionally makes things unfair be worshiped?