ForumsWEPRThe different type of christian.

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deathbewithyou
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deathbewithyou
534 posts
Nomad

Since Christianity FTW is a debate between christians and atheists I decided to make a new thread for a debate between christians and christians alone.

This is a debate between christian who have a different veiw of the bible, how to get to heaven, etc. It's about the types of christians and which ones are right and which ones are wrong. There are Roman Catholics, methodists, baptists, etc each with a different veiw of the bible.
This is a debate between the christians. State what type of christian you are and explain why you think being this type of christian is the right path.

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Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Good works make you a good person, but they do not influence if you get into Heaven or not.


Doesn't that defeat the purpose if all the rapists, murderers, sadists, thieves, hate-mongers, etc are there too, so long as they prayed to God?
kudos100
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kudos100
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Peasant

Catholics pray prayers to Mary because they see her as a saint, not as a goddess. Saints are also commonly prayed to, yet they're perfectly human and catholics know that. Believe it or not, it's not a detail that will make catholics non-christian.


Let me add to that- The idea that you pray to a saint rather than Christ in Catholicism is not that you don't pray to Christ at all- in fact, the idea came up when mankind felt too unworthy to pray directly to Christ, viewing him too perfect to be approached. Thus, the idea came to pray to those that could give those prayers to Christ, such as saints who were good enough to commune with Jesus, while still being approachable as men. Thus, the idea of saints in the Catholic church is actually created as a source of respect for Jesus. It is not an idea that you cannot pray to him, but rather that you must rely on him, but through messengers to him. Praying to a saint is praying to God ultimately, just as much as sending a message to a messenger is sending it to the king.
Jake, I don't think you understand how much insult you are giving when you call a Catholic "unChristian". Let me say this from your point of view. They may be wrong, and misunderstand Jesus horribly as you would see it, but the idea of sainthood comes from a veneration of Christ. You are saying much more than you intend to. I would be careful on how you say your opinion in the future- a simple "they are wrong" would be better than to say "despite the fact that you believe that you follow Christ, you are not Christian because of dogmatic belief differences." You may be saying something different, but that is how it is seen.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

this is kinda fun.
i can worship satan all my life but if i pray to god once the last min of my life. i go to heaven?

isn't that just wrong?

Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Which reminds what, what denomination of Christianity are you anyways Jake?

Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

I was Catholic for a while, and I still feel like, amongst the Christian disciplines that Catholicism is the best. The best, Jerry, the best!
The mythology and ritual that go on in even a simple Mass are just so fascinating, and it makes absolute sense to have and pray to saints. After all, if someone demonstrated on Earth that they are going to heaven, wouldn't you want them to mention to God what a great person you are? And really, that's all a saint is.
This is also why Catholics pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They believe that God could have easily come into this world without a mother, but that He chose Mary for this special purpose. And as the mother of God, Mary holds much more sway with the divine than any other saint. That's why Catholics pray to her and revere her.
I also really like that Catholics don't leave Biblical interpretation up to 'regular people'. Priests are scholars and have a far more intimate knowledge of the Scripture than your average person could. Some people consider this to be an archaic ritual that was based in the illiteracy of the early Church's parishioners. But even though most people today are literate, that doesn't mean they can interpret the Bible correctly. It takes much more than being able to read.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

So heaven is fifty-fifty full of good people, and of nasty people that have been brainwashed by jesus?

Don't you know the proverb "Ten good deeds and you'll get to heaven"? It isn't a commandment of course but it illustrates that being good does have a certain significance, which we were also taught in religion course (protestant). Of course you still had to seek repentance for your sins, but those were shady areas anyway that didn't really help convincing me.

Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

Catholics contradict this by tyring to work their way to Heaven and praying to God through Mary.


Keep in mind that Catholics don't pray to Mary as a ticket for getting into heaven. The last lines of the Hail Mary go like this:

Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.

When you look at that - who is Mary praying to? It should be fairly obvious that she is being asked to pray to God on behalf of the person making the prayer. Catholics would never deny that Jesus is the only way into heaven. They drink his blood and eat his flesh! Like, literally, that's what they think is happening. And those who don't take Communion don't get into heaven (barring special circumstances).
Catholics pray to Mary for the same reason they pray to saints - these are souls that they know are in heaven and who have Jesus' ear. You gotta get all the help you need, I guess. God's pretty busy.
Jake297
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Jake297
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Shepherd

To Kasic, when someone accdpts Christ into their heart, they lose the desire to even sin. They still can sin, but they are now extremely self-conscious about it.
To kudos100, I am sorry if I insulted you at all. That was not my intention, its just that topics like this make my blood really flow, if you know what I mean. As for Catholics being Un-Christian, I am just saying, Christian means that you accept Christ into your heart and ask him to forgive you of all your sins. Its kind of a one-time thing. From what I know, Catholics believe that you must pray continually and do good works to get to Heaven. As for praying to Mary, I believe that she is in Heaven now, and she was the mother of Jesus, but she cannot hear prayers. Jesus says, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father (God) but by me (Jesus, not Mary)."

Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

Jake, what denomination of Christian are you?

You're just repeating yourself now btw.

Jake297
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Jake297
306 posts
Shepherd

What do you mean, denomination? I believe there is one type of Christianity, and I believe you get to Heaven by Jesus, not good works.

Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

I believe there is one type of Christianity


Yes, and what is that one type?

denomination?


What group? For example: Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, etc.

Or are you saying you're pulling this all out of your own thoughts?
Jake297
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Jake297
306 posts
Shepherd

That one type is just "Christian". I am kind of a tweaked Baptist. I believe that baptism is not a sacrament. I don't believe baptism will get you to heaven, but I do believe God commands it after you accept him.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Regent

What I just fail to understand is, how can something like being good, that is asked from every christian (not as a way to heaven, but as commandments/guidelines for life), be regarded as void when it comes to getting to heaven? I understand you need repentance for your sins, be it a one-time event or a continuing phylosophy; but if being good has no impact at all, then what are all those commandments for? What have all christians been getting on our nerves for about being nice? That does not make sense.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

Fortunately, Christianity will never be proven wrong. It will grow more apparent that it is completely right as the tribulation unfolds. All the things predicted in the book of the Bible Revelation will come to pass.


The second coming is a failed prophecy. First off all the signs of this is going to happen are things that happen all the time. Second of all it was suppose to have already happen.

For example Paul in his first person account states that they would be alive for the second coming. (Using NIV)

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Another example of how Paul thought the end times were near.

1 Corinthians 7:27-31
Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife.
But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none;
those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep;
those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

Another example of how this was to pass during Biblical times.

1 John 2:18
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

Jesus eludes to the second coming during his disciples life time.

Matthew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Here Jesus flat out says it will in these guys lifetimes.

Matthew 16:27-28
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

And again Jesus says it flat out that it's in these guys lifetime.

Matthew 24:34
I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Repeating in Mark.

Mark 13:30
I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

And in Luke.

Luke 21:32
"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

From Jesus Generation always refers to the people of that particular age. (saying this since some try to get Generation to mean something else.)

There have also been retcons in the Bible to try and create an out for this failed prophecy.
Excavating The Empty Tomb (beyond a reasonable doubt) part 12b
Jake297
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Jake297
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Shepherd

To hahiha, the 10 COMMANDMENTS were COMMANDMENTS, not requirements. We are commanded to be upright, but it does not affect whether you go to Heaven or not.
To magegraywolf, that is your version of the Bible. I have the King James Version. I believe that although God has not come back yet, he will soon. The Bible says, "...He will come like a thief in the night..." meaning no man knows the time or the hour.

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