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stephenking
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stephenking
2,413 posts
Nomad

I was wondering if you actually do say the Pledge. Meself, I don't. I'll stand up for it, although I don't feel like standing. My reasons? Well, for one, I don't want to pledge to a country. Don't get me wrong, I think this country is great, but I don't pledge to anything. And, second, it says "with liberty and justice for all." Really? Can homosexuals marry the person they love? Can Atheists hold a place in office in some states? We are *a little bit* far from liberty, equality, and justice for all.

-Stephen

  • 104 Replies
loco5
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loco5
16,287 posts
Peasant

Oh, is that why the pledge says "One Nation under GOD"?


i'm sorry, so god means Jesus? not Allah? Vishnu? Zues? Flying Spaghetti Monster?

please, as i said the only reason that is there is because the Soviet Union had a similar pledge during the Cold War, and we didn't want to be like them
EnterOrion
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EnterOrion
4,220 posts
Nomad

Every day, loud and proud. Everyone in my first period class is a patriot, so we all fit in. As for my opinion on those who don't say it: If you don't mean it, don't say it. You're only lying if you do. As for those who don't stand for it: Show a bit of respect and stand, or leave. Simple.

one of said principles was to be free of your foul religion.


Or to worship as you please without persecution. Foul as you may think it, you can suck it up.
deathbewithyou
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deathbewithyou
534 posts
Nomad

i'm sorry, so god means Jesus? not Allah? Vishnu? Zues? Flying Spaghetti Monster?

To answer that I would say yes.

one of said principles was to be free of your foul religion.

Yeah but we're free to worship as we please. although one time a person got kicked out of a resturaunt for praying, and some christians get arrested for disturbing the peace when they were giving away free christian discs, etc.
stephenking
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stephenking
2,413 posts
Nomad

To answer that I would say yes.
Why does it mean Jesus? There are plenty of other gods out there. To name a few:

Thor
Zues
Xenu
Allah
Vishnu
FSM
Shiva (I think, not sure)
and plenty more.

So, why does it mean Jesus?

-Stephen
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

To answer that I would say yes.


What makes you think that?

Yeah but we're free to worship as we please. although one time a person got kicked out of a resturaunt for praying, and some christians get arrested for disturbing the peace when they were giving away free christian discs, etc.



Oh no! You poor, persecuted majority!
macfan1
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macfan1
421 posts
Nomad

Why does it mean Jesus? There are plenty of other gods out there.


Because Jesus was is the God that the forefathers worshiped and thought of when the pledge was made.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Because Jesus was is the God that the forefathers worshiped and thought of when the pledge was made.


Y can u no read other's posts?

We've gone over this. The "under god" in the pledge wasn't added until the cold war.
loco5
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loco5
16,287 posts
Peasant

Because, if they actually acknowledged the other posts, then they'd have no argument, best ignore it so you can sound smart.

/sarcasm

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

Because Jesus was is the God that the forefathers worshiped and thought of when the pledge was made.

Is that so? Let me see... ah, here:
The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an expression of loyalty to the federal flag and the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Christian Socialist Francis Bellamy (1855-1931) in 1892 and formally adopted by Congress as the pledge in 1942. The Pledge has been modified four times since its composition, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954.

Bellamy's original Pledge read as follows:

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Seems that god thing came later. Of course it seems obvious that the christian god is meant, but why not leaving that open to personal interpretation so that freedom of religion is respected? What would be the harm of it?

Or let's say it the other way, what isn't right with restricting such a pledge to only one deity, breaking the first amendment?
Bladerunner679
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Bladerunner679
2,487 posts
Blacksmith

Because Jesus was is the God that the forefathers worshiped and thought of when the pledge was made.


again, it is up to the educated to teach the ignorant the error of their ways.

the founding fathers weren't all christian. in fact, thomas jefferson was presumed to be an atheist, which is kinda confirmed later when he founded the first university that wasn't affiliated with religion (can't remember the name at the moment).

in fact, so many of us said earlier that the "under god" part was added in 1954. how do you not get it? there was no jesus in the original pledge because they wanted the country based on the principles of complete equality and religious freedom.

besides, under god means any god that you worship, whether it be christian god, or hindu Brahman. they only said "under god" because the majority of americans were christian (and we didn't want to awaken the petulant crybaby that is THE CHRISTIAN MINISTRIES), and also because if we said "religiously free" it would flow much harder than "under god".

I'd tell you to quit making claims without fact, but then that would mean for you guys to stop posting completely.

-Blade
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Because Jesus was is the God that the forefathers worshiped and thought of when the pledge was made.

The pledge was made in the late 1800s, not by the forefathers. Most of the forefathers were deists, not Christian.

besides, under god means any god that you worship

The capitalized word God usually refers to the Abrahamic one.

please, as i said the only reason that is there is because the Soviet Union had a similar pledge during the Cold War, and we didn't want to be like them

Yeps. They also considered putting the word "love" before "liberty and justice". I'm surprised they didn't add "except for communists" at the end.

Did you know that the pledge originally had a salute?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg

It was changed to the hand-over-the-heart gesture in 1942.
deathbewithyou
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deathbewithyou
534 posts
Nomad

Did you know that the pledge originally had a salute?

It makes them look like a bunch of communists.

As for the Under God thing, well there no point in atheists saying it since they don't believe in God. So when they pledge allegiance to someone they don't believe in, it would be kinda awkward. How about this, atheists don't have to say under God but the Christians can since they believe in him. It's a win win if you ask me. :P
Bladerunner679
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Bladerunner679
2,487 posts
Blacksmith

As for the Under God thing, well there no point in atheists saying it since they don't believe in God. So when they pledge allegiance to someone they don't believe in, it would be kinda awkward. How about this, atheists don't have to say under God but the Christians can since they believe in him. It's a win win if you ask me. :P


what about muslims, or hindus, or the FSM for crying out loud? the pledge is for american citizens, and if it appears one sided, then how can we truly call ourselves one nation. it would be better if we either removed under god, or if we changed it to something that includes all. a better line might be something along the lines of "free to worship". that way it includes all, is no longer biased, and allows for more unity in the nation.

-Blade
deathbewithyou
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deathbewithyou
534 posts
Nomad

a better line might be something along the lines of "free to worship". that way it includes all, is no longer biased, and allows for more unity in the nation.

Yeah I guess that would be a lot better. but where are we supposed to put it. I doubt it would be good saying it like "one nation free to worship"
HahiHa
online
HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

Is it allowed to say a former version of the pledge? Atheists could choose to say the original pledge for example, and the 'God' could be changed to 'god' thus allowing other religions to say it.

Though, apparently they inserted all that united states and america things because they wanted to prevent immigrants to think of their homeland flag when saying the pledge; what will stop them to prevent people to think of their own god when saying the pledge? The first amendment? They laugh at it.

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