Forums → WEPR → Mormonism
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I'm starting this topic to "continue" a conversation started in the Christians vs. Catholics thread. I will include some of the details from there, but the rest are up to anyone new to read up on. I will specifically post the contents of one post, more or less.
We did not baptize Adolf Hitler. That is a lie. After people baptized for Obama's mother, an official release was sent out saying that unless you specifically know the person who's name you are bringing in to do temple work for (not the names that they already have) or they are in your family, you cannot do temple work for them.
We are not barred from being around ex Mormons. We do not necessarily believe they are with Satan. We excommunicate people for their good. In our views, it gives them a second chance. They can rejoin the church later, and their sins will be gone, just as they were when they were first baptized. I know many ex Mormons, and I do not get in trouble for being with them.
South Park is in no way an authority on anything. The fact that you're trying to cite that is pathetic.
Yes, there was polygamy. But it was revoked in the 1890's (even if only for legal reasons). Joseph Smith did not try to burn down a newspaper place. He was taken to jail for no real reason. If he shot back, it was only because they were shooting at him.
The reason non members are not allowed in the temple is because of the sacred things that go on in there. If just anyone was allowed in, the spirit would be disrupted. I will expound on this if needs be.
I am personally ashamed of the acts of other Latter-Day Saints who have done temple work for people without permission from relatives of that person. It is wrong, and we know it.
Tithing... It was actually in Christ's day when it started. The only reason it affects our worthiness to enter the temple (not our standing in general). The Lord gave us everything we have, and all he asks is 10% of what we earn. I'd say that's a pretty small price for life, liberty, and happiness.
Also, we believe in Agency and Accountability. You can choose to do what you want, but you will have to accept the consequences.
I have a testimony of Jesus Christ. He is my savior and my redeemer. I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and that Thomas S. Monson is the living prophet today. I believe the Bible to be true as far as it is correctly translated. I know that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we can be forgiven for our sins and return to live with our Heavenly Father. I have seen the Atonement in action in my life. I know that God listens to all prayers to him. He answers them in his own way. I know that I can make it to the Celestial Kingdom if I but do my best to keep the commandments of God.
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Another unclear thing (to me) is how can man's free will and god's omniscience coexist.
According to christianity:
- men have free will. This is what they often say trying to justify the presence of evil on earth.
- god knows future. That's obvious because he is omniscient, and there are cases of him predicting future as well, such as the when jesus says that judas will betray him.
But these two elements are a little contradictory. Let's say I have a decision to make. God knows what choice I'll make before I do it. So, I can't take the other choice since that would mean that god was wrong.
In other words, if god knows what will happen in the future, it means that everything is already decided by god and we have no way to change it.
So, how aren't free will and omniscience in contradiction?
Well have you even looked some of the stuff you think is confusing. It's not confusing if you study it, or een make an effort to understand. Yes there are things that are unclear to me, but that is why I go to church every Sunday, to learn. I study and hope to know more things every time I read something.
Perhaps "confusing" isn't the right choice of words. How about, "Insert whatever belief you hold to and provide subsequent metaphorical meaning to back up said ambiguous passage of text?" Give me almost any verse, and I bet you I could come up with some metaphor that you will think is wrong but perfectly fits the passage.
So, how aren't free will and omniscience in contradiction?
God may know everything but not everything that is going to happen. Some things that are predicted might have been inevitable.
look, as a mormon myself I understand where link is comming from. I have seen people both ask the near impossible questions about our faith that could only be answered if you actually spent time in the church for a few years, and I have seen people take things out of context to call our religion "heathenistic" or "nonchristian". wanna learn something? you can only understand if you come to our church. how dare some of you people for accusing us to be wrong, or bad people.
joseph smith was a prophet of god, and you may not believe it, but that doesn't give you any good reason to start bashing it because there is one small thing in history that has been distorted once again to feed the prejudice of those who don't understand us. I mean, we mormons don't bash the catholics or the other protestans even though the catholic church had decades of corruption and "reforms" done in order to attract newly made protestants. The protestants are also terrible, your 95 theses of martin luther. sure you abandoned catholiscism durring it's corruption, but you dropped many of the principals that christ had talked about. for example: "I would like to eat meat anytime I'd like, I guess I'll have to make a new church now." whenever something disagreed with your personal philosiphy, you had to distort everything and lose even more of the original truths that christ taught in order to suit your needs.
to sum it all up in one sentence, don't throw stones when your house is made of glass.
that doesn't give you any good reason to start bashing it
then
The protestants are also terrible
Hypocritical much? You defend your own faith from the apparent bashing but then go on to call protestants terrible. You need to get over your persecution complex and realize that Mormonism is one of hundreds of thousands of religions and, although it's the one you believe in, it doesn't make it any more or less right than others - we can still tear it apart and question it all we like because we do the same with other religions. That is why we rip your beliefs apart and examine them in minute detail, asking every question we can think of, you're not helping things by challenging us with thing like 'how dare we' because that just encourages us to dig deeper.
I know the position you're taking all to well. my brother's an aetheist as well. he said the exact same things. heres another thing you should know: first off, aetheists came by in the renaissance when science and humanism was on the rise. (this will be relevant in a second)
durring that time, science was to catholics was like mormonism to you aetheists. so in this case, you will understand in time (probably when you die and are crying in spirit prison for somebody to release you from your agony by our proxy baptism). once you actually understand what the teachings are, then you would want to become one of us.
besides, the stories may sound ridiculous, but compare the people of our church to those who aren't in our church. the mormons are clearly living a better life even with the restrictions by the word of wisdom. you can't argue with that because the people in the other church (from what I've seen at my school anyway) make it sound like a burden to go to church. they say "do we have to" while we say "do we get to".
hmmm...you are rather well learned. I have one question to ask you, do you know what salt tastes like (give me the answer on my comments section, I'll eloborate there).
I know the position you're taking all to well. my brother's an aetheist as well. he said the exact same things. heres another thing you should know: first off, aetheists came by in the renaissance when science and humanism was on the rise. (this will be relevant in a second)
...Atheism was the original position, before religion was invented. Then religion was invented, and it took rather enlightened men to find that out. Some Greek philosophers where atheists. Of course during a scientific enlightenment like the renaissance causes atheism to rise, since more people can see past the religious BS. But the point is atheists have been around since the beginning of life.
durring that time, science was to catholics was like mormonism to you aetheists. so in this case, you will understand in time (probably when you die and are crying in spirit prison for somebody to release you from your agony by our proxy baptism). once you actually understand what the teachings are, then you would want to become one of us.
Actually, science is to Catholics as science is to Mormonism. Catholics said the world was flat and that the universe revolved around the Earth, science and math teamed up to prove them wrong. They said that evil spirits caused diseases, science proved them wrong. Go science! Now today, Mormons are saying that underwear is magical, and science just laughs at the ilia. Mormons are saying that the Native Americans are just punished Jews, and science is laughing at the idea. Mormonism says that there was an abundance of steel weaponry in North America, science is still laughing.
Actually, it is worse do to the fact that science has come far from those days and is available to the general public. Really, how can you believe any of that?
besides, the stories may sound ridiculous, but compare the people of our church to those who aren't in our church. the mormons are clearly living a better life even with the restrictions by the word of wisdom. you can't argue with that because the people in the other church (from what I've seen at my school anyway) make it sound like a burden to go to church. they say "do we have to" while we say "do we get to".
Err no. Not at all. What about all of us who don't go to church? I am plenty happy playing AG instead of listening to fairy tails on my Sunday mornings (Or what was it Mormons have there day on? Friday night maybe?)
Err no. Not at all. What about all of us who don't go to church? I am plenty happy playing AG instead of listening to fairy tails on my Sunday mornings (Or what was it Mormons have there day on? Friday night maybe?)
nope still sunday, and I was comparing mormons to some protestant sects, not mormons to aetheists. aetheists stay happy because they love crushing the faith of some very avid church-goers, and then flaunting around that they are aetheists by rejecting every single piece of spirituality that they came by or will come by over the rest of their lives. I didn't add that part simply because whenever I do, aetheists like you and many other member's of AG start flaunting their harrowing opinion as to why all religions in general are wrong. we get it, you hate spiritual thought completely, but crushing peoples beliefs in public is going to do more harm than good.
one last thing, avorne, you were right I was out of line one that post and I wish to appologize.
aetheists stay happy because they love crushing the faith of some very avid church-goers, and then flaunting around that they are aetheists by rejecting every single piece of spirituality that they came by or will come by over the rest of their lives.
It appears that you know very little to nothing about Atheism. The majority of the Atheists you will see here are part of the vocal minority that are sick of mainstream religions, we even have an anti-theist or two here, but the vast majority of Atheists in real life are quiet people who are happy to go about their daily lives without even bringing up the topic of religion or spirituality - even if it is brought up, the majority of people tend to approach it politely, but because they don't show an interest in the topic of religion and don't involve themselves in religious matters you only really get to see the vocal minority of Atheists which colours your opinions in a negative light.
Here are some useful notes on Atheism and the busting of some myths related to Atheism/Atheists.
hmmm...perhaps you are right, I know very little about aetheism except from those who scream about it to the people around them. I concede there, but still the fact is that there is still (even after so many years of being around) discrimination of mormons even though we did nothing wrong. that was why this thread was made, to help clarify what we are, and to try and end so many of the "facts" about us today.
there is no magic underwear, the clothes we put on durring proxy baptism are just there to symbolize the purity and importance of the act. there are baptisms for the dead, but I can assure you, they are done with permission of the descendants and those who have been dead for so long that nobody knows if they are their ancestor or not. that's all there is to it.
I know very little about aetheism except from those who scream about it to the people around them.
Can't say I've run into to many or any street preaching atheists. BTW no e between the a and th.
Little something on the Underwear.
http://www.mormon-underwear.com/
there aren't any street preaching atheists (thanks for correcting my spelling), but there are active, vocal, strong opinioned ones.
btw, thanks for putting out the link on the underwear wolf. may it clarify this crazy notion.
we get it, you hate spiritual thought completely, but crushing peoples beliefs in public is going to do more harm than good.
Atheism and spirituality aren't exlusive. Although I'm not spiritual at all there are atheists who for example meditate and still argue against religion.
there aren't any street preaching atheists (thanks for correcting my spelling), but there are active, vocal, strong opinioned ones.
I get where your coming from but I find this rich since you are complaining that Atheists are too vocal, when it is moromons who knock door to door, and in my experience i have seen many many religious sects screaming at me on the street however i have never seen and atheist do so
I have seen adverts on buses billboards magazines and radio about christianity, yet again i have never seen any of these advertised by atheists
it irritates me that when a christian trys to convert me its just them trying to enlighten me and to let me into spiritual bliss, however we see here atheists questioning your religion in any way and it being labelled as them 'crapping all over it'
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