Forums → WEPR → [nec]Christianity vs Atheism

I'm saying that's just not good enough as real evidence.

Dude. *I've* read the bible - and that after I abandoned it - if you're a christian & you think to pretend to follow the faith but don't even know what it is yourself, how [quote]can you even pretend to have any grounds to argue on it?

So if you *know* how god would feel about one thing, but that one thing is contradictory to the bible, how do you know your feeling that sexual pleasure is bad isn't wrong too? It's my point on it's the word of god, or it isn't. You can't have it both ways by quoting parts of the bible to support your argument, and then ignoring parts of the bible that contradict your argument.

Offense taken - you're treating me as if I was an idiot and you don't address the issue itself as to why they don't keep their opinion to themselves. Of course I know the church's position on it - I disagree, clearly. Currently there are laws in place as to when the abortion of a foetus is legal, and when it's not. The judicial system is good enough for me, and I support a woman's choice on the matter. I don't support abortion - I'm not "YAY! Abortion!" but I could understand if say... a woman was *****, got pregnant as a result of it, and didn't want to give birth to the child. It's her body, it's her choice, and I don't pretend to know what that must feel like - so I support their ability to choose for themselves. If the church and christians care so much about the sanctity of life, then why have religious people killed the doctors who perform it?

Yeah, me neither.
There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. In terms of deaths, or potential deaths, abortion has more, but it's also the law. Women have the right to choose and whether religious people disagree or not, that's the ballgame.

As to your final thought - no, I don't give credence to your arguments. They're not based on logical thought or scientific evidence. Great, you have faith in something - I think that's terrible. I understand what you're saying, and I abhorrently disagree. Above and beyond that, you haven't even read the bible, so how do you know what the christian stance on these issues is? You may think of yourself as christian, and believe in a set of values you've got on your own, but that's not christianity.. that's just being spiritual & believing in a higher power (something else I don't subscribe to because of the lack of evidence). Christianity *is* the writings and teachings of the bible, and if you don't know that, you have all of your work ahead of you.

It's annoying, sure-but religion shouldn't be ridiculed. The actions of the religion itself, sure-but the actual religion itself, no matter how crazy it is, is a belief which is undoubtedly important to that person. Religion is a psychological construct-it is part of the unshakable human nature, and it is unfair to ridicule something that is a product of inescapable psychology.

By that statement, I deduce that you have not had much interaction with religion in your life-I have.

You seemed not to understand why the Church was against abortion. If you do, then you had no need asking the question in the first place.

I get frustrated when I think people don't know something I've found so blatently obvious

Christianity requires faith, and faith can't be changed into logic.

Why did they give up God? How does it make them feel?

Perhaps you didn't understand the question. I want to know why they don't keep their nose out of other people's businesses. They disagree with it. Fine. Go home; stop pushing your agenda on the rest of us or ostracizing & killing the medical professionals assisting the women. If you disagree with the law, write your legislative representative. To your next point - okay, legal protest is fine. Killing the doctors is wrong, even by your own set of principles, yet the religion seems to drive these people in that direction. It's not turning all christians into bloodthirsty killers; but it's certainly not helping with some.

I enjoy the use of socratic interrogation, and it frustrates a lot of people. There's almost always another 'why' behind a 'why'. So you just keep asking.

True. I'm still not sure why people try to argue for christianity in a debate setting. It doesn't work.

Just think...we could have been exploring the galaxy by now.

My father doesn't feel anything anymore - he's dead. While he was alive though, he regarded religion with a bemused pity. He never voiced or expressed any of it though until I approached him to speak on my experience with christianity with disdain.

Ah, don't worry about the insults; it's a hot topic & people get riled up. To be honest, I only point them out as a debate tactic - I'm really not offended

Well... at this point I think we've reached an impasse. I've enjoyed this conversation thoroughly - it's been a lot of fun. Much respect - Most people give up, but you stood your ground all the way to the declaration of faith over logic.. and that? I cannot argue.

Cheers

Unshakable? If it were truly an inescapable part of the human condition like you say it is, then *everyone* would believe in something, and yet, there are many people like myself who don't believe in anything 'spiritual'.

You would be incorrect in your deduction. I have had a significant exposure to several different religions throughout my life, and didn't think much on the subject either way. I was involved in a number of religious youth programs, went to a camp that had a huge focus on the bible & christianity, not to mention the exposure from friends, and even unsolicited attempts at conversion when I got a little older.

I think it is ridiculous that we take it seriously

Thanks, it was an interesting debate, and I actually did take some of your arguments into my life. Have fun <

there is even a Pacific island that built a religion around the US WWII Air Force.

@hidden: First, we beat you to Pascal's Wager, and now we beat you to the air-force religion! :P
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Hmmmmmmm. . .and so this thread's argument has reached yet another impasse. If it dies, it'll be revived, and the cycle will continue.

@Yakooza - funny but historically false and made up.
see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_science

@thisisnotanalt- I asked you about twenty pages ago (sorry for wait) whether there is an absolute morality. You said yea. So you believe logic and reason can figure out who created the universe, but logic can't figure out whats a just action?

"Hi, Homosexuality should be illegal because it's what the Bible wants. However, the parts about women as property or slavery being OK don't count anymore."

As a response to Yazooka99k, I don't believe being a homosexual is wrong. I believe homosexual acts are morally wrong but not legally. I think Gay Marriage is wrong because the point of marriage is to create a family not just to mess around. If two homosexuals want to have fun and live together that's legally fine, but that's not the point of marriage.

Also, slavery in the old testament is a lot different than we imagine now. Pope Paul III in 1537 issued a Bull against slavery, entitled Sublimis Deus, which attacked slavery which took away every type of rights from slaves. For there are many different types of slavery. For instance lets say I owe you so much money i can never pay you back. Is that morally far fetched to say that you would be a servant for X years to pay off the debt.

Chinua Achebe wrote a book Things Fall Apart, at one point he stated that Christianity was the religion that received all the slums in society and took them in. As you realize these are the people who don't work hard and still believe they deserve something in the slice of societal pie.

So you believe logic and reason can figure out who created the universe, but logic can't figure out whats a just action?

Slavery, which was taken for granted in the Bible and throughout most of history, was abolished in civilized countries in the nineteenth century. All civilized nations now accept what was widely denied up to the 1920s, that a woman's vote, in an election or on a jury, is the equal of a man's. In today's enlightened societies, women are no longer regarded as property, as they clearly were in biblical times. Any modern legal system would have prosecuted Abraham for child abuse.

As a response to Yazooka99k, I don't believe being a homosexual is wrong. I believe homosexual acts are morally wrong but not legally. I think Gay Marriage is wrong because the point of marriage is to create a family not just to mess around. If two homosexuals want to have fun and live together that's legally fine, but that's not the point of marriage.