Forums → WEPR → Abortion

btw that was in response to the comment BW made before Carlie came in

Personally, I have never had to make the choice. But I fully support every womans choice to make it, and want to protect my right to as well.

If you consider it life after one day, after the first cells start to divide, then what do you think about what they do in labs? When they do not allow them to grow to term, do you believe that that is wrong?

Look, I don't want to sit here and just parry these arguments, so I'll make a thrust of my own. Let's turn the discussion around again.

Let me ask you, do you consider yourself to be patriotic? This one's going to be from a Constitutional point of view. The Declaration of Independence mentions certain "inalienable rights" which cannot be withheld from anyone. I believe there's a clause in the U.S. Constitution saying the same, but I'd have to find it again after all this time... My argument is this. These inalienable rights are listed in the Declaration as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If a citizen, in this case a baby, is denied the first of these, life, he certainly cannot pursue the others. Thus, is it not our Constitutional duty to make sure every U.S. citizen has a shot at life? It's only a basic right, after all. And come on, even children of illegal aliens, if born on our soil, are considered American citizens, and they are also entitled to these rights. How much MORE should an all-American baby be guaranteed these rights, most of all the right to life.

of course, however it must always depend on the reason for this

Personally, I am not patriotic. And I do not take it to mean so literally when it comes to abortion.

It was my impression that most people consider it bad after a few months, because that is when the child actually starts to develop and sense. It is not often that I find someone who views it from the point of conception.

Carlie, and all of you, should know this. I believe that from the moment a sperm joins an egg, that single cell which is created is a complete human being with a body, a mind, and a spirit. So yes, I believe lab activities which end the life of that single cell or any that it divides into are wrong.

That's hard to argue, coming form a legal standpoint. I don't know the constitution well enough to do so very well, but do these inalienable rights apply to everyone according to the constitution, or just U.S. citizens? It doesn't really change anything, I just want to know.

i'm not going to argue 'constitutional rights' here, as I believe they have long been 'forgotten' by society.

Well I can't say that I agree, but you have every right to believe in that. I don't think we will be able to really agree on anything, but it has been interesting to see your opinions.

on who's? I just don't believe CR belong here much, and as much, my opinion remains unchanged about the subject

Ok, you seem to be coming from a religious standpoint, Bloody, so I have a question for you.

What do you think about all of the natural miscarraiges that happen every day? Essentially, it is a natural abortion, period. I don't know how religious you are or if you believe in a god, even, but if so, ultimately god would be the abortionist.

I am a guy, period. I can never understand what a woman has to go through in that circumstance, which is precisely the reason that I am pro-choice. Do abortions make me a little iffy? Absolutely. Do I like the idea? Not in the slightest.

Do I feel like I, a man, have the right to make the decision that no woman will ever be able to legally and safely have a procedure done that could potentially save her life OR spare a child's life from torment?

No.

That's not my call.

Abortion is a sad thing, no doubt about it, but it's always happened and it always WILL happen, most likely. From a practical standpoint, keeping it legal lets mothers have the procedure done in a way that will not harm their own life. If we prohibit it, people will resort to back alley abortions and all kinds of complications will occur. It's just not smart.

To answer your prior question, I agree with the others who stated that I wouldn't give a crap if I was aborted. I'd never have existed. No harm, no foul.

When it comes to the Constitution, we are not a citizen until we are born, period. Your usage of the right to life strikes just as fiercely at yourself, however, when it comes to a circumstance where the mother will die if childbirth happens. What happens to her right to life then?

You too, Carlie. Oh, Lenny, those "inalienable rights," according to the Declaration, apply to all humans, not just U.S. citizens.

razaki, beautifully said, and you pose some interesting questions!

OK thanks.

Razaki, my point about the threat of death during childbirth was that if you cannot save both the mother and the child, you must save one of them. To let them both die would be wrong; is that what you were saying already? And I do believe in one God. I'm a Christian, shouldn't be ashamed of that fact. Now you all know. As for God being an abortionist because He allows miscarriages to happen, no. Also, just because deadly car crashes happen, or that old people die naturally, that does not make God a murderer. He always knows what will happen in advance, but He does not do anything to actually cause the death of a person. And, though He is often saddened by human behavior, He does not interfere with our free will to choose. As for your "guy" argument, my answer is that I'm a human. Period. Women and babies are also human, and I can understand human feelings. My opinion on this matter is not because of insensitivity, I assure you.