Forums → WEPR → Abortion
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What my peers here think?
I would like to try and avoid a buch of rabid Catholics and Christians falling back only on the religious reasons and what have you. However, I do not see how that can be dodged.
My view? I'm for it. If a woman wants to get one, it is her choice. Some people seem to act like if one woman gets an abortion, it means that all the rest have to. If the child in question is not yours, butt out.
Also, on a lighter note, I say that abortions should be allowed when kids are up to 18 years old. That would solve a lot of headaches, eh?
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I see nothing wrong with abortion. What I do think is wring is these "Pro-life" people that block clinics, harrass the women at them and even (on rare occasions kill doctors) brilliant irony a pro-lifer killing people. I think it is terrible that when some of thses women are making one of the toughest decisiond of their life they ahve a pro-life person shouting at the.
Here's what I believe:
Women should have the right to choose what they want to do with their bodies. Pro abortionists often seem to disregard the fact that the women carryinbg the foetus' are indeed human beings too, and not just a container for the foetus and so their rights should be as important as those of the foetus.
I don't have a callopus or careless attitude to the life of the foetus, but I acknowledge that choosing an abortion is normally a case of choosing the least bad of several options for the women concerned.
I think that in most circumstances, abortion is completely uncalled for. I think that unless the mother would die in childbirth, it isn't right to take the life of an innocent person. Even in rape, there's still a child, whether the mother is responsible or not. I'm not saying it's not hard to say no to abortion. But there's always adoption, which is always better than being aborted. Everyone deserves a chance to live, and we are not gods that can judge someone's value BEFORE their born. If the child is predicted to be deformed or retarded, that's no exception either. Life is precious, and it certainly isn't a choice. We can't justify our actions by saing we are doing it in the interests of the child. In the same sense I could kill every poor, retarded, deformed, starving, etc. person and call it good. Abortion is easier than the pain of childbirth, but that pain will end. When you decide to take a child's life, you can never bring it back.
I think that in most circumstances, abortion is completely uncalled for. I think that unless the mother would die in childbirth, it isn't right to take the life of an innocent person. Even in ****, there's still a child, whether the mother is responsible or not. I'm not saying it's not hard to say no to abortion. But there's always adoption, which is always better than being aborted. Everyone deserves a chance to live, and we are not gods that can judge someone's value BEFORE their born. If the child is predicted to be deformed or retarded, that's no exception either. Life is precious, and it certainly isn't a choice. We can't justify our actions by saing we are doing it in the interests of the child. In the same sense I could kill every poor, retarded, deformed, starving, etc. person and call it good. Abortion is easier than the pain of childbirth, but that pain will end. When you decide to take a child's life, you can never bring it back.
And lemme guess, you are assuming that pro-choice people think that abortion is the right thing to do, or that it should be tossed around willy-nilly? No. Abortion should be treated like any other important surgery or procedure; with discretion. There is nothing in the pro-choice movement saying that abortion should be treated like those mints that you get at the front desks of restaurants when you leave; abortion is a very serious decision, not one to be taken lightly. People understand that abortion is serious; it's not like it's either a crime or an on-a-whim thing. People get how serious it is, and it is taken very seriously in the modern medical world.
thisisnotanalt:
No, I hear pro-choice people say that it's up to the woman all the time. I know you guys aren't psychos that want everyone to abort. I never said abortion wasn't a serious decision either. Everyone with an unwanted pregnancy thinks long and hard about it. All I'm saying is that abortion takes the life of an innocent child, and that it shouldn't be used unless the woman's life is at risk too. I don't expect to change your opinion, though, so whatever.
I don't expect to change your opinion, though, so whatever.
Don't be so nihilistic about debating! Have at it! :3
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The analogy you made earlier was somewhat incorrect. Because the living people have a chance that the fetuses don't--changing their situation. Also, there are sometimes when abortion is an issue of euthanasia rather than murder; there are some deformities that make life not worth living. The problems that the pro-life movement typically cites in abortion discussions are fixed by the r word--regulation. *hears gasps from conservatives* Now, if you have a medical or dire fiscal reason for an abortion, then one should be allowed--if you can't support the baby and can't afford the foster system or adoption, then the streets isn't a great place to go. Also, if their is a justifiable medical reason for an abortion, then it should be allowed. Just like if you want hip replacement surgery. If you have a good reason, then you should get one.
The analogy you made earlier was somewhat incorrect. Because the living people have a chance that the fetuses don't--changing their situation.
I'm not sure what analogy you mean. Also, yeah, if the child is going to die anyway or the mother has a legitmate medical reason, I wouldn't dream of telling her to give birth anyway. I think the main difference between pro-life and pro-choice (I mean the normal people, not the clinic bombers) is our definitions of good reasons. Rather than fund abortion clinics with tax payer money, we should fund childbirth and finding homes for these children. Once again, I don't mean to offend people who've had abortions. You're right, it is a touch choice.
The analogy you made earlier was somewhat incorrect. Because the living people have a chance that the fetuses don't--changing their situation.
Nevermind, I found it. But how can a retarded person or a deformed person change their situation? I can see what you mean with poor, though.
Everybody deserves the right to live. If you take away that right, what is left? Killing an innocent, unborn baby is murder. The government may say "The baby hasn't been born yet, so it's not a human". But, in that case, what is "human"? Maybe we're not human until we can learn to talk? Maybe until we're 18? Until we can work? Maybe we stop being human when we lose our ability to work. Then it won't matter if they kill us. If they do, they say they're "helping us" or "helping humanity". It's like in that book "Giver". Anyone who's elderly or different or too much for society is "released", which is to say they're killed. Abortion is the same. It's just another word for the slaughter of an innocent, unborn, helpless baby. I just cannot understand how someone can believe that abortion is good and exonerate its qualities. To me, it's just murder.
Abortion, ok first of all if the soon to be mother dosen't want the kid, let her get rid of it. Mainly because if the mother didn't want the kid at birth its going to have a screwed up life, in an foster home. Also studies show when young mothers have kids, there is a higher chance the little baby will end up in a microwave. I use young mothers because you never really hear of 25 and above women getting abortions. So my point here is let the mother make her choice, and you make yours when your having a kid. Unless your a guy.
It's just another word for the slaughter of an innocent, unborn, helpless baby.
I think that post hyperboled a little.
I am not pro-choice because I dislike that word greatly. Abortion is fine to be honest it is not murder at all because it is not a human. I can't remember what it says in the bible about blood and the soul but I gather that before there is blood in the foetus there is no soul. No soul and its not human so you can kill it. Obviously I'm atheist so I think that is rubbish but hey... Abortion is far from murder but I'll tell you what is. These pro-life people that think it is ok to murder doctors and harrass women outside abortion clinics when they are making one of the hardest decisions of their lives. (obviously nor all pro-life people kill but it is an irony-deficient few). I agree with Bill Hicks pro-lifers should lock arms and block cemetaries. jk
Nevermind, I found it. But how can a retarded person or a deformed person change their situation? I can see what you mean with poor, though.
Mediation for most forms of MR, and rehab and/or wheelchairs for deformities.
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Everybody deserves the right to live. If you take away that right, what is left? Killing an innocent, unborn baby is murder. The government may say "The baby hasn't been born yet, so it's not a human". But, in that case, what is "human"? Maybe we're not human until we can learn to talk? Maybe until we're 18? Until we can work? Maybe we stop being human when we lose our ability to work. Then it won't matter if they kill us. If they do, they say they're "helping us" or "helping humanity". It's like in that book "Giver". Anyone who's elderly or different or too much for society is "released", which is to say they're killed. Abortion is the same. It's just another word for the slaughter of an innocent, unborn, helpless baby. I just cannot understand how someone can believe that abortion is good and exonerate its qualities. To me, it's just murder.
actualdebatenotjustopinionplz.
To me, it's just murder.
Wee-ooo. . .weeeeeeee-oooooo. . .WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I think I have a fallacy alert! Murder is the illegal killing of someone, so abortion is not murder. Also, "abortion" is a pro-life propaganda word. The procedure was not originally called "abortion," I think. It ultimately comes down to the question, "is killing the potential for sentient life as bad or worse than killing actual life?"
Lalalalala
I'm gonna keep posting this until I see a decent argument against it.
The fetus is causing direct, physical harm to a woman, and she has the right to separate herself from anyone or anything which is causing her direct physical harm, EVEN if that person or object cannot continue to exist without her.
If I require your lung to live, I cannot simply take it on the grounds that my "right to life" trumps your rights to self-defense. If I make some attempt to use your lung against your will, you are within all legal and moral right to remove yourself from me, EVEN THOUGH it means my death -- not my lung, not my choice. By the EXACT same token, no fetus is entitled to a uterus belonging to someone.
If the fetus IS human, then it STILL has no right to use the woman's uterus against her will, making the debate STILL pointless. So whether or not it is human, it has NO RIGHT to stay inside the uterus if the woman who OWNS her own uterus wants to be removed from the fetus. She cannot be deprived of that right, as it is the first tenet of ALL self-defense.
To deny women the right to defend herself against unwanted harm being done to her body, then you subjectively value women less than a fetus and award all fetuses the right to an organ belonging to another human being -- a right which NO other form of human enjoys. This is impossible on two measures: sexism and ageism.
Only women have uteri, therefore allowance of the use of a uterus against its owner's wishes is sexist; the rule would therefore have to be expanded to something non-discriminatory, such as "organs." The ageism is showing favoritism towards those who are less than 0 minutes past birth, which is reverse-discrimination, and also illegal; therefore the age limit would have to be expanded -- say, all people who have a specific physical need to live. Now all people are equally represented -- and organ donation becomes compulsory based on the need of another individual in order to live. That is the only legal result from illegalization of abortion.
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