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thepossum
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thepossum
3,035 posts
Nomad

Should animals have any rights? If you answer please explain.

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Zophia
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Zophia
9,434 posts
Scribe

@Zahz:
Humane kills in my definition, are fast ones without excessive pain. Just minimize it. Inevitable pain, just make sure it is not prolonged. Thus all of your examples can be humane kills, they just need to be performed correctly. As close to instant death as possible, or the 'ut to sleep' version.
Move freely = not be confined in a tiny space all its life so it can't even turn around. But actually that criteria is based on the ability to function, not the space. If a creature is unable to walk itself to the water or food, it does no longer have the ability to move freely. And what Cenere said. Just trying to elaborate...

Strop
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Strop
10,816 posts
Bard

we must be careful not to regulate it out of existence


Oh, we could start an argument on this one too- I would actually place my stocks in pushing rights that in fact marginalise the meat industry. I say this because of how I perceive the meat industry's place in modern society as politically over-represented.
jonnypants23
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jonnypants23
1,353 posts
Farmer

Don't start on me with that stuff you two just posted about. Last week I had two watch as my three rats got put to sleep in a not completely painless way

Im not starting anything,just posting my oppion.
And for the record I had to wacht me 18 year old cat get ripped to shreds by a a bear , in my backyard.
So dont you start anything lol.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Animals for food should be treated well, and be able to move freely, and be slaugthered without stress, though most butchers and meat concerns try to make the death as peaceful as possibly, mainly because of them not wanting the meat to be stress.


Why?
Zophia
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Zophia
9,434 posts
Scribe

Why?
Stressed meat is said to taste worse than non-stressed meat. Because of adrenalin and hormones and other stuff that is released when they are distressed... Go back some pages, some good references got posted a while back...
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Hmm. Thats interesting.

I thought Cenere was taking it as a morality issue...I missed a few sentences there...

Strop
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Strop
10,816 posts
Bard

And for the record I had to wacht me 18 year old cat get ripped to shreds by a a bear , in my backyard.
So dont you start anything lol.


I'm...sorry for your loss, but this is not a competition, so nobody starts anything of the sort, understood?

I thought Cenere was taking it as a morality issue...I missed a few sentences there...


This appears to be a pertinent point unless one acknowledges that the morality we discuss cannot be of a dimension external to our considerations.

Better tasting meat + less stressed animals = a good thing!

At least compared to: worse tasting meat + more stressed animals.

However it's true, this line of argument can be problematic unless you actually approve of battery farming and disapprove of free-range produce.
Drace
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Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Strop,

I missed the part about the meat being stressed and it being more healthy (somehow) and just that her argument was that it was wrong to kill animals inhumanly.

Zophia
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Zophia
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I thought Cenere was taking it as a morality issue...I missed a few sentences there...
Yeah, I was about to go on about how I didn't want to pick a discussion with your agnostic (was that the word?) views... But then I read your post again and realized you had missed the point. Wee.

I don't like human morals...
Cenere
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Cenere
13,657 posts
Jester

You never do, Zophia...

To ba able to live a natural life, and being safe. I know, when you think of "natural life", it is open fields and all that, but our domesticated animals are unable to live without our help, because of the way they are bred. As Zophia said, animals should be able to move around and function. It does not have to be a great field, though the producers of milk products tend to advertise with the better taste of milk from grassing cows.

Just remember about the ferrets being free'd by activists, because the way they are kept are inhumane. That might be right, but a ferret is a killer, and if the nature it is let into is not ready, and a large number of these killng machines are let go at the same time, it could ruin the enviorment... No, I do not like the activists that much, not that kind...

thepossum
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thepossum
3,035 posts
Nomad

Wow. I totally forgot I made this thread, Anyway, in case I never said(I'm definetely NOT reading all this) I personally believe that animals have no rights and don't need them.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Possum, QUIT REVIVING THREADS!

And it depends on what you mean by rights....

I don't agree with torturing them, but bieng charged with murder for killing them is ubserd. I think hunting is fine but beating it with a nine tails for fun is a big no...

MarioMario
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MarioMario
1,212 posts
Peasant

theposeeum did you just revive a thread that has been dead for a year?

And I dont think thet should be put in those dog fights,thats just cruel.But if you hunt just to kill it and leave it then thats wrong.If you hunt cause your family is starving then its ok cause then you have a good reson.

Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,504 posts
Jester

Well, there ARE rules about reviving threads....is this the best thread about this topic made? Yes. Is it with good reason? Well, it is a very interesting topic that pits morals and reason against each other...

There are certain natural rules of survival that justifies we humans interacting with other, but the number of ways that we have been treating animals as a society need to be minimized or stopped altogether. Take fast food restaurants for example, mostly McDonalds. The way they handle their animals, like throwing their chickens into trucks like garbage bags just to be taken to the slaughterhouse to be processed needs to be lightened up 12 notches. Commercial farmers, how they breed animals just to be held in confined areas, being homogenized to increase production of milk, eggs, extra meat, etc. all to meet the needs of the executives and us.

Individually, humans hunting deer, rabbits, ducks, and other animals.. that's just a natural law of survival. Survival of the Fittest you know? Domesticating animals serve mutual relationships between them and us, much more hunting dogs. They have a higher sense of smell than we do and are much more capable of tracking down animals than we are. In turn, they get a stable lifestyle and a share of the food.

Classifying domesticating other animals like chickens, sheep, and cows.... that's difficult.

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

Individually, humans hunting deer, rabbits, ducks, and other animals.. that's just a natural law of survival.


We have a right to kill and torture animals, because, unfortunately, might makes right. However to me, saying that we have RIGHT to kill them because they are inferior really just bothers me. If you kill them because you like killling, I disagree with your motivations, but as long as the meat is used, I can accept it. If you are hunting for food, then I absolutely have no quarrels with the practice, as it is by nature necessary to feed ourselves.

Compound that with the fact that many of the animals we hunt haven't got any natural predators any more (we wiped most them out as they were a threat to us), and I would say that, in fact, killing an animal in a habitat that is over carrying capacity is in fact a humane practice, as you are saving it from a slow death from starvation.

Although that's just answering the is it right 'to kill' aspect of the question, and now for the more relevant one, should animals have rights?

I say absolutely. To me, saying that an animal is inferior gives us complete power over them is ridiculous. Every animal is a biological marvel, a perfect expression of form that best suits the environment in which it lives. That being said, I do not disagree with the practice of domestication, as it is a necessity in order to more effectively utilise land to supply a growing population. However, during its life, it should be observed that animals can feel pain and have emotions. Though the ultimate goal is to kill them for food, practice like those being shown below, should not, and connat be allowed.

http://www.envirowarrior.com/userimages/user2492_1170493942.jpg

http://www.defendingfarmanimals.org/images/Pig26.jpg

As I have said before, animals do have feelings, though not, perhaps as developed as those of a human's. They should not obviously be accorded to the same status as a person, but I think that the rule of thumb should be ''Could I do this to another person without getting into legal trouble?'' Right up tot he point where we kill them, that is.
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