AGS Steam Games

Forums → WEPR → Communism

326 68059
Communist
offline
Communist
522 posts
Nomad

who thinks communism is good, bad , or misunderstood?
i think communism was currupt by that monster Stalin an therefore, it became hard for that form of government to be truely used as Marx had intended it.

  • 326 Replies
Moegreche
offline
Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

I think the notion of poor working conditions and wages are really just a stereotype of the American Industrial Revolution. Now, I'm certainly not one to rely on any one particular interpretation of history, but wages in the U.S. were among the highest in the world at that time. There were also strong indicators of prosperity, such as meat consumption and extra curricular expenditures, that were prevalent during that period of time.
As far as the harsh working conditions and child labor, I think that's just a difference of what is acceptable. Children have been doing hard labor for most of our existence because that's just what needed to happen. It is very recently that education has developed such an intrinsic worth in our society. And this was all pre-OSHA and before any real notion of worker's safety was even realistically considered.

Xzeno
offline
Xzeno
2,301 posts
Nomad

My primary argument against Communism is this: My goal in life is extreme success, and of course this means crushing anyone who gets in my way. In short, I want to live the American dream. If that means destroying the dreams of others, so be it. As Moegreche said, in a pure capitalist society, few have it all. I intend to be of those few. In a communist society, I would most likely be at the bottom of the heap no matter what I did.

Parsat
offline
Parsat
2,180 posts
Blacksmith

Certainly depends on your view on morality. Both communism and capitalism started with different aspects of morality.

Drace
offline
Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

If pure Capitalism does lead to just a few wealthy elites hording money, why do we consider that a bad thing?


Having the rich elite control the market is pretty efficient, that is of course for the free market. Businesses rise but the weight is put on the average person.The more wealth a minority take in, there is less going to the others. Currently, there are at least 2.6 billion living under $2 a day. Thats more then half the workers! And I'm not sure what you mean by preposterous. Sure, the US acquired a mass amount of money and reached imperialist stage. Now it exploits other countries and rap es the natural resources off the Earth.

Standards of living did increase, but why is capitalism automatically accounted for this?
And interestingly enough, national happiness (Or whatever is called) has been dropping since the 1950s, and wages have been slowly decreasing for 30 years.


http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2001/12/images/wade-c1.gif

(Trying to find the other sources)

Children have been doing hard labor for most of our existence because that's just what needed to happen.


It certainly didn't mean that they were to be payed low wages. And if anyone knew, it is still reality in third world countries where rich corporations have set up factories and sweatshops.

and before any real notion of worker's safety was even realistically considered.


It always had been considered by the workers themselves and their families. The involvement of labor laws came into play through of years of struggle.
Drace
offline
Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

Certainly depends on your view on morality. Both communism and capitalism started with different aspects of morality.


Not quite. They are both built on human happiness. They just have different interpretations of how to reach it.
Drace
offline
Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

And I'm getting pissed off at the fact that no media source will every address such things.

Makes me wonder why...

Parsat
offline
Parsat
2,180 posts
Blacksmith

Not quite. They are both built on human happiness. They just have different interpretations of how to reach it.


In other words, morality. Capitalism is based on the moral concept that you get what you deserve for yourself. Communism (at least Marx's thought) was rooted in the concept that it is morally wrong to exploit the workers in the way that they were treated.
Yakooza99K
offline
Yakooza99K
588 posts
Nomad

Not quite. They are both built on human happiness. They just have different interpretations of how to reach it.


Here are the 3 types of government


Capitalism -> Free enterprise -> Big Corporations -> Outsourcing -> Sweatshops -> Evil -> Wal Mart -> Consumer -> Happiness

Communism -> Spread the wealth -> Poor get money -> Rich lose money -> Everyone is poor -> Equality -> Government takes advantage -> Evil -> Propaganda -> Invasions -> Slavery -> Happiness

Obama -> Happiness
Parsat
offline
Parsat
2,180 posts
Blacksmith

Slippery slope arguments have no place here.

Xzeno
offline
Xzeno
2,301 posts
Nomad

Not quite. They are both built on human happiness. They just have different interpretations of how to reach it.
I would agree with that, but as I stated, my view of happiness is based on my own personal gain.

My other problem with communism is that I believe it easily leads to totalitarianism, which is the most undesirable form of government, including anarchy.
Drace
offline
Drace
3,880 posts
Nomad

There is no views of happiness. Happiness is a feeling and it can be reached in many ways. If you think you can only get happy if you become rich and exploits others, then grow up a bit...


My other problem with communism is that I believe it easily leads to totalitarianism, which is the most undesirable form of government, including anarchy.


Its not so simple...read the history.
Parsat
offline
Parsat
2,180 posts
Blacksmith

It isn't so simple, but it sure is a common result, however gradual. The dictatorship of the proletariat does tend to get lopsided towards the "dictatorship" part.

Xzeno
offline
Xzeno
2,301 posts
Nomad

If you think you can only get happy if you become rich and exploits others, then grow up a bit...
I know it is not the only path to happiness, just the best. My plan should not require much in the way of exploitation, I merely intend to become rich (and famous, to some degree) by being the best in my chosen field. I don't intend to leech off the misfortune of others (go into business) but rather become more successful then others because of my ability to do my job extremely well. I don't believe I could accomplish this in a communist society.
Communist
offline
Communist
522 posts
Nomad

the goal for communism is to simply allow the everyday proletarian to make themselves better individuals both in moral terms and in term of happieness.

ever hear the expression " money can't but happieness"

*Idk if I even spelled "happieness" right =P

crazjayz
offline
crazjayz
243 posts
Nomad

Posted by Xzeno

I know it is not the only path to happiness, just the best. My plan should not require much in the way of exploitation, I merely intend to become rich (and famous, to some degree) by being the best in my chosen field. I don't intend to leech off the misfortune of others (go into business) but rather become more successful then others because of my ability to do my job extremely well. I don't believe I could accomplish this in a communist society.


If you were the best in your field in a communist society, you would be head or chief or senior of whatever you specialized it. The government would go to you for advice in your field, and essentially you would be famous, just without the money.
Showing 211-225 of 326