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samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

Well to start out i dont beleive in evoltuion so the fact that other things cant be taught really ticks me off but i just want to see what people think and why.

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logantheking
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logantheking
254 posts
Scribe

Are you joking? We have transitional fossils, it does explain the existence of simplest organisms (unless your talking about how life began that's the theory of abiogenesis), and yes we do have an explanation for polystrate fossils, which is a subject of geology rather then evolution.


The existence of multi-strata fossils is both a geological and a evolutionary science topic. Evolution also needs a origin for life that is not supernatural and completely by chance. How then did life begin? In Darwin's 'Warm, little pond'?
What I meant about the books Refuting Evolution and Case for a Creator was that a Christian used science for their argument.(Shocking, I know)
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/facepalm4cr.jpg

The existence of multi-strata fossils is both a geological and a evolutionary science topic.


Evolution doesn't need to explain a geological phenomena. I provided you a that has explanations on how this happens.

Evolution also needs a origin for life that is not supernatural and completely by chance. How then did life begin?


Did you even read what your replying to?
(unless your talking about how life began that's the theory of abiogenesis)


What I meant about the books Refuting Evolution and Case for a Creator was that a Christian used science for their argument.(Shocking, I know)


I'm aware of what these books say, they don't use science. The best they do is quote mine scientific discoveries.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Examples include: lack of intermediate fossils


Seriously?? We have literally thousands of intermediate species. Also, simply because we don't have every single one doesn't mean that evolution is at all incorrect. Furthermore, we now have the genome projects which use DNA to prove the evolution and relationship of species.

inability to explain the existence of even the "simplest" living organisms


Nope, that's not a problem with evolution either. In fact, we even show how the "simplest" living organisms, such as viruses, have evolved. If you are referring to how life began, that's not a problem with evolution either because it doesn't even attempt to explain that. That is the job of abiogenesis.

But I love this straw man fallacy that the ID community love to hurl at evolution. All it does is illuminate their ignorance of evolutionary principles, as well as the scientific process. It's kind of like a big neon sign that says "I have no clue what I'm talking about so just ignore me".

multi-strata fossils


Yeah, most of that is explained by the geology of the areas these are found in. Typically these areas are made up of strata which have been folded over due to intense heat, pressure, and seismic activity. And yet again, not a major issue with evolution.

I'll close with my favorite factoid about evolution.

We actually have more hard evidence, proof that evolution is real and is how life came to be as we know it today, than we have for gravity, and I don't remember the last time my pencil fell upward...
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,573 posts
Blacksmith

and I don't remember the last time my pencil fell upward...


You weren't in my house on sunday then

How then did life begin? In Darwin's 'Warm, little pond'?


I dont understand how that has anything to do with evolution.

And Mage, the Implied facepalm had me chuckling for a while. Only T.L.Jones can pull this off with such refinement.

I think there is a difference with seeing scientific language in a book and actually understanding the fundamentals with which it is based.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

Since the definition of evolution doesn't seem to be understood I will try and explain.

evolution; change in allele frequencies in a population from one generation to the next.

But you might not know what an allele is. Well no problem.

allele; one form of DNA sequence in a gene

So we could say evolution is DNA sequences changing in a population from one generation to the next. or more simply put decent with modification.

The two main mechanisms of how this works are...

Natural selection; traits becoming more or less common in a population as a result of the previous generations survival. Sometimes it's not fit to survive, so it doesn't.

Genetic drift; change in frequency of a gene variant in a population by chance. Sometimes it's fit to survive but accidents happen and it get's killed anyway.

The two above are the main mechanisms of evolution however there are other mechanisms as well.

mutation; a change in the DNA sequence usually because of errors in replication.

gene flow, aka gene migration; transfer of alleles of genes from one population to another.
if one group with one genetic trait joins another group with another genetic trait this could lead to increase in frequency of the new genetic trait appearing in the next generation. Let's say a group of mostly light skinned people joins up with a group of mostly dark skinned people. There will likely be more dark skinned people in the next generation because of the increase of frequency of that specific genetic trait. This can also work in reverse by having a group split up taking with it more genetic traits. The groups splits up with mostly light skinned people going one way and mostly dark skinned people going another.

This is what the theory of evolution states. As you can see it says nothing about how life began. It just looks at where it went from there.

Cinna
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Cinna
753 posts
Nomad

mutation; a change in the DNA sequence usually because of errors in replication.


That's the zombie one right?
Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,504 posts
Jester

That's the zombie one right?


lol, no. It's an "error" that occurs during meiosis or DNA replication. Some have no effect whatsoever, alter the product of the particular gene, or prevent the gene from working.

Here are some causes to find out how this happens
Cinna
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Cinna
753 posts
Nomad

lol, no.


Darn. I thought this was going to be interesting.

That link did more than my physical science teacher ever did however, so I guess thanks!
Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,504 posts
Jester

Your physical science teacher teaches biology and genetics? O_o

Cinna
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Cinna
753 posts
Nomad

Well the last couple weeks we had nothing to do so he just told us a bunch of crap about it.

BackFlip
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BackFlip
138 posts
Nomad

if nothing can be taught then whats the point of school whats the point of life huh? but yes i see really we do learn EVERYTHING by ourselves.

cddm95ace
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cddm95ace
165 posts
Nomad

I've actually written a paper on this subject. I am a creationist myself, and I believe that kids have the right to be taught all theories, and then decide for themselves, as long as one side is not being forced upon them.

In the Supreme Court case Aguillard vs. Edwards, the Supreme Court decided that creationism could not be endorsed because it violated the Establishment of Religion Clause in the First Amendment, and had no secular purpose. I say that creationism is, at least for schools, a theory, just like evolution.

Also, creationism is not just for Christians, there are many different religions and sects that believe in different versions of it, which means that the government would not be supporting one religion, but one theory.

locoace3
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locoace3
15,053 posts
Nomad

but one theory.



A theory, ID is not my friend it has no backing and hasn't been tested, so no it's just an ideal.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

I've actually written a paper on this subject. I am a creationist myself, and I believe that kids have the right to be taught all theories, and then decide for themselves, as long as one side is not being forced upon them.


To bad Creationism isn't a theory, it is wishful thinking. Bring some evidence and then you can teach it all you want...

Also, creationism is not just for Christians, there are many different religions and sects that believe in different versions of it, which means that the government would not be supporting one religion, but one theory.


Supporting multiple religions is still supporting religion. And once more, it has no proof thus is not a theory.
cddm95ace
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cddm95ace
165 posts
Nomad

A theory, by definition, is a way of thinking that has not been proven 100%. For instance, no one can argue against the fact that the Earth is round, because we have seen it from space and know that it is round. But creationism and evolution are theories, because no one was actually there to see it, and scientific evidence can be misinterpreted.

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