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samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

Well to start out i dont beleive in evoltuion so the fact that other things cant be taught really ticks me off but i just want to see what people think and why.

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MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Back to page 56, I meant that I don't believe in the Big Bang theory. I want to see what you guys think about that, as in my opinion, it its what parallels creation. Evolution is what happens after.


Again, the Big Bang model does not deal with creationism as related to life. All it states is that a long time ago the universe was very dense and hot, and over time it has expanded and cooled. That's it.

The ONLY scientific model that deals with creationism is abiogenesis.

There is scientific evidence about creation, which means it is relating to science. For example, look at Mt. St. Helens in Washington. Its environment is rebuilding way faster than scientific models about how long things take to form show. That could be major evidence of creation.


No there isn't, and no it doesn't. The ecosystem around Mt. St. Helens is evidenciary of how life adapts to conditions, as well as how seemingly catastrophic events (such as earthquakes, floods, and volcanic eruptions) can actually have a long term benefit on a region.

Furthermore, much of the regrowth in the area is due to the time and season in which the event took place. Being spring, many plants had not yet budded and were trapped under the ash, lying in a dormant state, until nutrients could be absorbed and conditions be more beneficial for the survival of the organisms. This is further evidence of evolution and how species adapt to, and overcome, catastrophic environmental change.
cddm95ace
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cddm95ace
165 posts
Nomad

Again, the Big Bang model does not deal with creationism as related to life.

But creationism and the Big Bang theory both are about how life, and matter, and everything, originally began. How nothing became something. Evolution is how that life changed.

Mt. St. Helens, the volcano itself, is building up the cone again much faster than predicted.

wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

Mt. St. Helens, the volcano itself, is building up the cone again much faster than predicted.


So? Just because we make predictions doesn't mean those predictions will be right. I fail to see how this indicates god exists.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

There is scientific evidence about creation, which means it is relating to science.


Considering creation starts with the assumption "god did it" I would think an important first step would to prove a god exists in the first place.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

But creationism and the Big Bang theory both are about how life, and matter, and everything, originally began. How nothing became something.


The Big Bang has nothing to do with the beginnings of life. It's a cosmological theory on how the universe formed and developed. Since the theory states that the universe formed from the expansion of a singularity it also doesn't say anything about how nothing became something. Nor does this really have to deal with the beginnings of matter/energy.
Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

Let me clarify for the people that still don't understand:

Big bang theory deals with how the universe began
Abiogenesis deals with how non-living materials turned into organic stuff
Evolution deals with how life changed and evolved.

MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Let me clarify for the people that still don't understand:

Big bang theory deals with how the universe began
Abiogenesis deals with how non-living materials turned into organic stuff
Evolution deals with how life changed and evolved.


Let me elaborate on this a bit for those who don't understand what these theories entail.

The 'Big Bang' cosmological model, simply stated, tells us that a very long time ago the universe was very dense and very hot. As time goes on the universe expands and cools. That's it, no explosion, no miniscule point in space occupied by all matter, none of these misconceptions which are unfortunately so prevalent.

Abiogensis shows how, given the conditions on the early earth, standard and even common chemical reactions can form simple amino acids, the building blocks of all cellular life, which became capable of self replication.

Evolution explains how organisms have varied expression of genes, most notably through allele frequency, and how these variations alter the appearance and structure of organisms. Evolution also explains how genetic drift and natural selection stimulate certain genetic expressions and allow for favorable traits to survive and flourish, while detrimental traits often lead to the extinction of the organism, or the modification of the expressed gene in such a manner that the trait itself becomes extinct within the genome.
Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

Thank you for that Walker - my descriptions were merely outlines, I'm glad you went into further detail. I'd also like to add that a mass of articles and pieces of research can be found on the internet for those who seek to learn more about each of those 3 things - as well as, if it's a good one, your local library.

DaemonVeril
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DaemonVeril
217 posts
Peasant

Different strands of DNA cannot spontaneously appear or come into being. Mutations can occur, but no new DNA, which is needed to make a new species or creature. Sorry MageGrayWolf, evolution cannot be true. Your aggressive doubt of a God can only be countered with the impossibility of evolution.

Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,504 posts
Jester

Different strands of DNA cannot spontaneously appear or come into being.


hahaha I beg to differ.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

Your aggressive doubt of a God can only be countered with the impossibility of evolution.


So your argument is: "I don't think evolution is possible so then God is real hahahahaha"
Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

Daemon - if Evolution is false then how in the name of every single god****ed god that the human race has burdened itself with - do you explainCommon Descent?

grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

Sorry MageGrayWolf, evolution cannot be true.


Yeah, right. You found a reason that evolution can't be true. It was so simple, why hasn't any of those thousands scientists found it... *facepalm*

I still can't believe that so many Americans think that evolution didn't (or doesn't) happen... How can you be so influenced by religion? What about creationism? Adam and Eve were the 2 first people in this world. How could their kids have kids? Incest?

The Bible is a veeeeeery old book. Back at time people had no idea about science. If they couldn't explain anything then it was God (or the devil). Yes, there are some good things in the Bible (for example altruism), but it's proven that many things are wrong! Just because your parents told you that it's true, it doesn't need to be really true...


back to the topic: Evolution is mostly proven. If you don't believe in it, okay... If you think that creationism is right, your fault... But don't insist on having it taught in school... There's no proof for creationism, so let it be...
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Different strands of DNA cannot spontaneously appear or come into being. Mutations can occur, but no new DNA, which is needed to make a new species or creature.


That explains how Italian Wall Lizards developed a completely new digestive system. Changes that would have required new information.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080421-lizard-evolution.html

Sorry MageGrayWolf, evolution cannot be true. Your aggressive doubt of a God can only be countered with the impossibility of evolution.


You're Wrong

Not only for your reason why you think evolution is wrong but I accepted the theory of evolution long before I became an atheist. My acceptance of this theory play no real roll in me deconverting.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/motivator3917766.jpg
xfirealchemistx
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xfirealchemistx
370 posts
Nomad

Evolution and creationism should be taught.

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