I saw yet another video of a group of protestors burning the American flag. The disgust me! Please tell me someone else out here agrees that it is wrong and should be illegal.
Well, it would make sense to burn a flag of a country you're against, or if you're protesting something in your country...But what does this have to do with freedom of speech?
Are you crazy, men and women have gave their lives to protect this country and you think burning the United States flag is a way of paying respect. The United States flag isn't just a piece of fabric itself, it's a country of millions of people. This flag has brought hope to soldiers on the battle field since this country called it's independence. To me burning the United States flag is anti-american. It's disgusting and disturbing at the same time.
On the contrary, I'm not 'crazy'.
You don't seem to be grasping the point that there are countries in which burning the flag is illegal. The USA is a self-proclaimed bastion of freedom. The right to burn your own country's flag in protest is an expression of that freedom. The men and women that fought & died for the USA, fought and died for those freedoms - including the freedom of speech, which allows people to burn a flag.
Burning the USA flag abroad might be anti-USA, but on USA soil, some consider it to be a patriotic act because they live in a place where you are *allowed* to disagree with the government, corporations, and establishment as much as you want, without fear of oppression & tyranny.
Burning the USA flag abroad might be anti-USA, but on USA soil, some consider it to be a patriotic act because they live in a place where you are *allowed* to disagree with the government, corporations, and establishment as much as you want, without fear of oppression & tyranny.
I don't really think that's necessary, though. It's kind of putting down the idea of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, not the current government. Plus, when other countries see us burning our own flag, they may think of us as a little hypocritical. And if we disagree with liberty, then why are we expressing our disagreement using our liberties?
Well, people show up to protest 'a' issue, not the USA as a whole, and then the burn a flag to get attention.
It's precisely *that* it offends some people that they want to do it, because it's an inflammatory act (no pun intended). So it's not a disagreement with liberty, but it's using that liberty to disagree with 'something' that the government is doing.
Well, people show up to protest 'a' issue, not the USA as a whole, and then the burn a flag to get attention.
Oh yeah, I was pretty sure it wasn't an actual fight against liberty itself. But I think that this disrespects the country and offends it, while we actually should attack the issue dead on. Especially since America gives us the freedom to protest, you can maybe see what I mean when I say it seems a little hypocritical, even if it isn't intended to be. Plus, I think respect is important, and that one should only lose respect from someone if they must. That's why these debate forums are generally so friendly. You may win the battle, but (let's assume you wanted to protest the War in Iraq) burning flags will make the soldiers from both sides think you hate the country, when all you really want is to have the soldiers leave Iraq. Maybe it isn't intended to be hateful, but it may come across that way, especially when there's a split-debate here about whether or not we should be allowed to burn the flag. That means there are a lot of people that have a problem with that.
I can see where you're coming from when you think it's hypocritical, but I don't agree.
True, the debates in this forum is rather civil; but in real life it's much less of a debate. It's like.. people protest and complain to the government about something, and they don't really address the issue; so the people who are against the issue in question feel ignored, and get angry, and want the government to pay attention to them - so, they burn the flag or do whatever appalling measures they can to get media coverage, and more attention from the US populace. Perhaps at that point, more people will pay attention, join their cause, and write their representative.
Maybe it isn't intended to be hateful, but it may come across that way, especially when there's a split-debate here about whether or not we should be allowed to burn the flag. That means there are a lot of people that have a problem with that.
This is the key thing to freedom of speech. It has to be the freedom for everyone to say what they want to say, whether or not everyone agrees with it. If people are only allowed to do or say things that everyone agrees with, no one would do anything.
To take a page out of one of the other arguments on the forum:
I don't agree with people that think Gay marriage is wrong - in fact, at times I think stating as such is a little bigoted & offensive... but I'd never take away someone's right to speak their mind on the subject with the opinion that they have.
Burning the flag might be offensive to some people, but that's the big thing about the freedom of speech. You are going to piss *someone* off every time you speak your mind, or destroy a symbol.
This is the key thing to freedom of speech. It has to be the freedom for everyone to say what they want to say, whether or not everyone agrees with it. If people are only allowed to do or say things that everyone agrees with, no one would do anything.
Oh yeah, I understand. I was more or less just questioning why somebody would burn the flag, not their right to. And while we have freedom of speech, I think we also should (not must, but simply should) refrain from being too offensive. I'm not perfect either, I offend people sometimes.
You are going to piss *someone* off every time you speak your mind, or destroy a symbol.
True, but the crowd you piss off is important. I don't like pissing people off who don't get pissed easily. But people who get angry about everyone that disagrees with them should be ignored.
I've never protested, so maybe I don't fully understand how tense it can get. It just looks different from both sides, I guess. Anyway, I'm leaving, so see you later.
I think we also should (not must, but simply should) refrain from being too offensive.
That puts you on a bit of a slippery slope though. Who gets to define what's too offensive? The president? Congress? The supreme court? They all have their own opinions too on what's offensive & what's not, independant of those they're representing.
And once you define one thing as offensive, what if other people are offended heavily by something else & want that included in the list?
I'll catch you later - just going to drop a few quotes on that note, all from the same man:
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.
The boisterous sea of liberty is never without a wave.
And my favorite on this subject:
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Hmm someone said you burn it to dispose of it? yes...when its old, tattered, or about to tear. these people are americans? Seriously? I dont think burning your nations flag is "Freedom of speech".
Well, the supreme court does think that burning the US flag is protected 'free speech' under the first amendment, so for the purposes of this argument, it is.
The supreme court has already ruled this to be legal and as a freedom of speech in the landmark case: Texas vs Johnson (1990). The freedom of speech extends to expressive rights.
Well, the supreme court does think that burning the US flag is protected 'free speech' under the first amendment, so for the purposes of this argument, it is.
exactly, people should learn to read the title, good work HiddenDistance.
While you do make a point, owning a gun is the right to protect the individual. Burning a flag is the right to accomplish absolutely nothing other than a waste of a flag, a fire, and time. Maybe it's also a waste of time to try to make this illegal, but still, even wanting to burn the flag is a little bit weird, wouldn't you say?
I wouldn't say it's wierd at all. Like it was said a few pages earlier the soldiers who have faught and died for say the American Flag died for the freedoms it protects. It is a perfectly reasonable way to express yourself. About the guns however, I could say that it's a waste of time, money and materials to produce them. If they weren't so openly sold alot of problems would be solved.
as much as it is legal to do so. what about the soldiers that died under that flag. seems like it goes to prove a point but i still don't see what it proves
