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samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

In an attempt to keep another thread on topic I decided to create this one. How important was Jesus? In my opinion he is the single most important man in human history. Was he God? Well honestly that's not what this is about so shh go argue on some other thread.

  • 94 Replies
deserteagle
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deserteagle
1,633 posts
Nomad

Well he was a man who gave rise to the largest religion in the world.
so he must be fairly important through a religious view as well as a historical view. We all know that the Catholic church played a large part in Western history.

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

http://i37.tinypic.com/f02684.jpg
One of the greatest works of art in the world. Influenced by Jesus and Christianity.

http://i38.tinypic.com/sc3wqc.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/wji07l.jpg

I can go on, but it is quite obvious that Jesus had an impact on art.

Without Jesus, there would have been no puritans, and America would be very different.

Because of King Henry VIII, the Catholic church was divided so that he could annul his previous marriages. This caused great resistance.

Don't forget about the Crusades!

You also have every single Christian church.

Just because something or someone doesn't exist does not mean it has no impact. Dracula has had a great impact in film, but he isn't real (the vampire one).

So yes, Jesus was important.

balerion07
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balerion07
2,837 posts
Peasant

Dracula has had a great impact in film, but he isn't real.


That's what he wants you to think.
Blu3sBr0s
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Blu3sBr0s
1,287 posts
Nomad

Just because something or someone doesn't exist does not mean it has no impact.


Proof: God is important =P
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Jesus is real. Even if he wasn't a physical person, he's real in the sense of Harry Potter. He's a character that has had an influence on our society; I think that's pretty important.


So far it doesn't seem he is real and I wouldn't call Harry Potter real in any sense.


So it doesn't matter weather Jesus really died on a cross for your sins or that it was all just a story some one made up, his level of importance is unaffected?
BigP08
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BigP08
1,455 posts
Shepherd

So it doesn't matter weather Jesus really died on a cross for your sins or that it was all just a story some one made up, his level of importance is unaffected?

It matters. But it can't be proven. So whether it happened or not has the same effect on us in this life.
If Harry Potter wasn't real in any sense you wouldn't know who I was talking about.
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

@ NoName, whilst I agree with you on the art, I disagree on your other points. Namely because they weren't directly influenced by Jesus, rather Christianity as a religion. Christianity's deity could have been anyone other than Jesus, and the events you described would have had the same outcome.

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Christianity's deity could have been anyone other than Jesus, and the events you described would have had the same outcome.


Sorry in advance for being repetitive.

Christianity is based off the bible. What is the New Testament about? It's about Jesus. If the bible excluded the new testament, then Christianity would be completely different. In fact, we would be Jewish or something similar; that or there would be a different religion in motion.

Who is the number one blame for WWII? Hitler. When Pearl Harbor was attacked by the Japanese, it was still influenced by Hitler. It wasn't directly influenced by Hitler, but it was influenced by him none the less.

Anything influenced by Christianity was also influenced by Jesus. Art reflects people's beliefs and values. If there's so much art of Jesus, then he must have been important.

If you replaced Jesus with God, then you can't say "God wasn't the direct influence, Christianity as a religion was." That's just crazy, because God is the main focus of Christianity, along with Jesus.

What I'm trying to say is, Jesus has had a huge impact on the world; may Jesus be an idea, real man, or son of God.

Now let me say something from an atheist's perspective. Nobody knows who wrote the bible. But those people who wrote the bible has had more influence on the world than The Beatles! It's ironic isn't it? Everyone knows the Beatles, nobody knows the authors of the Bible. The authors of the Bible started many religions; all of which fall under Christianity. Christianity has shaped much of the world.

Everybody knows who Jesus is, but Jesus might not have been a real person. What does it matter if he was real or not? Even if there was evidence he was real, the influence he had on the world would be the same. But we do know that the people who wrote the bible were real, and they had just as big an influence on the world. We don't even know their name. Does that mean they had no influence? Of course it doesn't! We just don't know who they are.
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

It's about Jesus. If the bible excluded the new testament, then Christianity would be completely different. In fact, we would be Jewish or something similar; that or there would be a different religion in motion.


I think you misunderstood me. I am not disputing the importance of the Bible, which relies on religious teachings, merely that who those teachings are based on are almost immaterial to the events you described.

Who is the number one blame for WWII? Hitler. When Pearl Harbor was attacked by the Japanese, it was still influenced by Hitler. It wasn't directly influenced by Hitler, but it was influenced by him none the less.


(1) That's certainly a point of historical contention, but for the sake of this argument I'll assume that's the case, it's just an analogy after all.

(2) Interestingly, you couldn't blame Hitler for the start of WW2, from a legal standpoint. I'll use an example of a court case in Holland:

X caused a car accident, due to which Y ended up in hospital. His condition was fine, nothing really life threatening. Y died due to an illness he was suffering from, which was triggered by the car accident (this was proven). Did X cause the car accident? Certainly. Did X kill Y? No. X broke the law, and should be punished for that, but you cannot blame X for the illness Y had. This is all about causality and how far you can take it. Y ended up in hospital due to X, and X is to be blamed for these costs. The causality from the car accident to Y's illness being triggered should not be blamed on X, particularly because this is something that is unnacounted for, and because it cannot be directly related to X.

Hitler did invade Poland, and did deserve to be punished for that. Other nations may have decided to declare war because of that, but Hitler cannot be blamed due to the causality.

The same goes for the events you are attributing to Jesus. His may be the name and face of Christianity, but it certainly wasn't the causation of these events by any means.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

If the idea of Jesus never existed, then all the art and events related to Christianity would not have happened. That is why Jesus is important.

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

If the idea of Jesus never existed, then all the art and events related to Christianity would not have happened. That is why Jesus is important.


I think it's a bit of a stretch tracing all events related to Christianity back to Jesus. For one it ignores a large number of contemporary causal factors.

Other than that I have no problem with this claim.

I think we are misunderstanding each other. When I said: ''Christianity's deity could have been anyone other than Jesus'' I was more referring to his physical identity, rather than his ideals and message. On that I agree, although not fully for the reason stated above.
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