In an attempt to keep another thread on topic I decided to create this one. How important was Jesus? In my opinion he is the single most important man in human history. Was he God? Well honestly that's not what this is about so shh go argue on some other thread.
If you've read up on Mithra and still accept Christianity, then I don't think you're beliefs are rational anymore.[quote]Apparently they still are, because that is not ample evidence to disprove Jesus. Coincidences happen, many completely seperated civilizations have similar gods.
Why... why do many civ's have the same gods and prophets etc. This sounds like a con trick being pulled on us every thousand years to me. (in a bill hicks voice)"here have a new prophet you fools, ha ha ha, belive what we want you to, go back to bed"
WTF does the Illaid have to do with anything?!? Homer was a great (polytheistic) poet who wrote the Illaid based off the Polypolsain War... I'm pretty dam* sure Achilles wasn't dipped into the river of Styx, Or if even Troy ever existed.
Again separate the fact from the faith and look at the texts from a purely SECULAR (not ATHEIST) viewpoint. The Iliad is used as the basis for most Archaeological digs in the area of Troy. The Iliad would be considered the second most historically accurate text based on the current system of; number of texts reproduced (not mass reproduced i.e the Iliad has 8); years until the 1st text was reproduced; and how much the reproductions vary from the originals.
Tower of Babel, fact or faith? Noah's Biblical Flood, fact or faith? Garden of Eden, fact or faith?
All a bit of both, should records show a worldwide flood? The other two however I suppose are almost all faith. IT's impossible to find eden because there's an angelic warrior with a flaming sword guarding it. Also the remains from the tower of babel would have long be eroded.
Accuracy like the ones pointed out in this video? Bible Bullsh*t - Episode 1: Historical Inaccuracies
I would like to hear your to how your historical accurate text can't even seem to line up with history of Jesus's life time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBufxLab5ns
You can find the full series on page two here.
To take it as a useful historical text I would expect the stories of Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John to not be so contradicting to one another.
Honestly youtube isn't what I would call a good source and I don't have the time to watch the videos give me credibility or give me..not caring. Also if you would, be..so kind as to give me examples it'd be nice.
Honestly youtube isn't what I would call a good source and I don't have the time to watch the videos give me credibility or give me..not caring. Also if you would, be..so kind as to give me examples it'd be nice.
He gave you examples, but you are choosing to ignore them. The Youtube videos Mage gave were third party sources with individual people giving the facts..
T's impossible to find eden because there's an angelic warrior with a flaming sword guarding it.
how come we haven't found this flaming sword yet?
The Iliad is used as the basis for most Archaeological digs in the area of Troy. The Iliad would be considered the second most historically accurate text based on the current system of; number of texts reproduced (not mass reproduced i.e the Iliad has 8); years until the 1st text was reproduced; and how much the reproductions vary from the originals.
I never knew homer's fictitious tale was so real! I mean, Ajax, and Achilles DID exist! And they really did fight Hektor the horse breaker! Poetry books back in 800 BC are Hella accurate!
All a bit of both, should records show a worldwide flood? The other two however I suppose are almost all faith. IT's impossible to find eden because there's an angelic warrior with a flaming sword guarding it. Also the remains from the tower of babel would have long be eroded.
I selected those because they were once regarded as completely real events but are not regarded as myths. Each of these stories are heavily rewritten from other stories. Some do have a slight hint of reality to them but every myth has a grain of truth. Think of it like the movie 300 it's a fictional movie based on a fictional comic book based on real events, hardly what could be regarded as a historical account.
Honestly youtube isn't what I would call a good source and I don't have the time to watch the videos give me credibility or give me..not caring. Also if you would, be..so kind as to give me examples it'd be nice.
Makes me wonder if I should even bother continuing this if your not even going to look at what I am presenting and dismiss it just because it came off YouTube.
Anyway I've been trying to find information on Jesus So far I can't find a single record dating to the time Jesus supposedly lived. Everything including the gospels all date decades after the fact. This is extremely odd given the Romans record keeping during that time. I did find this site.
At face value the Christian evidences appear to be overwhelming. Looking outside of the New Testament, many texts in apologetics will include a long list of names and documents that claim to confirm historically the existence of Jesus: Josephus, Suetonius, Pliny, Tacitus, Thallus, Mara Bar-Serapion, Lucian, Phlegon, Tertullian, Justin Martyr, Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Clement of Alexandria, Hippolytus, Origen, Cyprian, and others. Some of these names are church fathers writing in the second to fourth centuries and are therefore too late to be considered reliable first-century confirmation. Being church leaders, their objectivity is also questionable. These facts were not important to us evangelists nor would they cause any red flags to raise in the minds of the average believer reading the average book of Christian "roofs."
However, the list does include some nonbelievers - Jewish and Roman writers who were likely not biased towards Christianity - so it would appear that there can be no question about the historical existence of Jesus. Who could possibly doubt it?
It is rarely if ever pointed out that none of these evidences date from the time of Jesus. Jesus supposedly lived sometime between 4 BC and 30 AD, but there is not a single contemporary historical mention of Jesus, not by Romans or by Jews, not by behevers or by unbelievers, not during his entire lifetime. This does not disprove his existence, but it certainly casts great doubt on the historicity of a man who was supposedly widely knovm to have made a great impact on the world. Someone should have noticed.
One of the writers who was alive during the time of Jesus was Philo Judaeus. John E. Remsburg, in The Christ, writes:
"Philo was born before the beginning of the Christian era, and lived until long after the reputed death of Christ. He wrote an account of the Jews covering the entire time that Christ is said to have existed on earth. He was living in or near Jerusalem when Christ's miraculous birth and the Herodian massacre occurred. He was there when Christ made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He was there when the crucifixion with its attendant earthquake, supernatural darkness, and resurrection of the dead took placewhen Christ himself rose from the dead, and in the presence of many witnesses ascended into heaven. These marvelous events which must have filled the world with amazement, had they really occurred, were unknown to him. It was Philo who developed the doctrine of the Logos, or Word, and although this Word incarnate dwelt in that very land and in the presence of multitudes revealed himself and demonstrated his divine powers, Philo saw it not."
There was a historian named Justus of Tiberius who was a native of Galilee, the homeland of Jesus. He wrote a history covering the time when Christ supposedly lived. This history is now lost, but a ninth-century Christian scholar named Photius had read it and wrote: "He [Justus] makes not the least mention of the appearance of Christ, of what things happened to him, or of the wonderful works that he did." (Photius' Bibliotheca, code 33)
I'm going to keep this short. Jesus is insanely important. Does he exist? What does it matter? He is still important.
One of the corner stones of Christianity pretty much regardless of denomination is that this guys died for us. If it turns out he wasn't even real or at the very least not the person described in the Bible, should this not change his status of importance?
Jesus is insanely important. Does he exist? What does it matter? He is still important.
I completely agree with MageGrayWolf here. Even the proposition "Jesus is/was important" is false if Jesus never existed (at least according to standard Theory of Descriptions logical interpretation of the proposition). It's also very important to know if we're talking about Jesus the actual person or the idea behind Jesus. Both have different contexts and implications. Notably, if it's the latter, we can discuss why such a myth is important to carry on throughout a significant part of modern human existence.
Jesus is real. Even if he wasn't a physical person, he's real in the sense of Harry Potter. He's a character that has had an influence on our society; I think that's pretty important.
