Think about it, what is religion? The belief in something that cannot be proven, that has many, many things that as of yet we have found impossible, and in many people, it is unshakeable. Now I am not saying that all religious people are going to go kill someone or end up in an assylum, but think, in every religion, the basis is something that cannot be know, but is only faith. Faith in something that could turn out to be wrong, faith in something that you have absolutely no way of knowing. Also, think how many of these religions started, some person got a message from a "god" that told them what to do. Don't go crazy on me, I just want people to think about it.
It sort of feels like someone is in the room next to you and lifting you up
That's how I feel when i'm happy. So, either god is only with me when i'm happy, or it's just a chemical reaction in your brain.
find some logical reasons to explain it away.
Well, it makes sense to find a logical way to explain things. That's the point of this thread,
You have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what the religious experience is that I'm describing, and yet your pretending to think its about being happy. It's just like if you were an Indian and I described a ship to you, you'd try to think it was just a root of a tree. It's just completely irrational and illogical for you to think you can understand it when you blocked it of from your vision.
Look. Imagine there is a place that you've never visited and I have, so I try to describe it to you, and you go, "Oh, that sounds like Leeds. I've been there before." That's just INSANE!
One small difference. EVERYONE that isn't blind can see that tree.
Not so. You have to be close enough to the tree, in good lighting, etc. in order to be able to see that tree. Perhaps our "sense of divinity" or whatever it is works in the same sort of way. We must be in the right position to experience God. Theists will argue up and down that God is all around us - it just takes a moment to feel His love for us. Some of us might certainly be in a better position than others to perceive (in some sense) God's love. Just like some might be in a better position to perceive a tree. But still, under the right conditions, it will happen - at least, so says the theist.
I still don't see a compelling reason to reject the theist's beliefs as irrational or unjustified. Notice, even if there isn't a God, that doesn't mean the theist's beliefs are irrational. If I truly believe that I perceived something, then it's hard for me to not take that as evidence that that something exists.
Not so. You have to be close enough to the tree, in good lighting, etc. in order to be able to see that tree.
Wrong, I could take a picture of the tree and put it online and everyone could see the same tree in that picture without even needing to be near it. Even a blind man could reach out a touch the tree and know it's there.
Other things we can do to prove the tree exists would be to bring back leafs and even branches that have fall off the tree. We can take soil sample and see the effects the tree has had on the soil around it. So even if we didn't see the tree or touch the tree we could still prove a tree was there by how it effects it's environment.
Now lets say you haven't seen any of this evidence, on top of this you have never seen a tree before. So to believe this tree really exists you want proof. I tell you I personally saw this tree once Would you regard my personal experience sufficient evidence for the tree existing?
Since you in real life have seen trees before you might take my personal experience at face value, seeing a tree isn't that extraordinary of a claim. But what if I told you the tree had a sky blue trunk with purple leaves and sang opera when the wind blew through it's branches. Would you still be so ready to believe this tree existed without me provided some form of evidence besides me just saying I saw it?
The claim of God is even more fantastic then a claim of an opera singing purple leaved sky blue tree. Yet the evidence offered is not even seeing God but just getting a feeling he is there.
sometimes people go to far to say their religon is right. religon is not insanity, only people make it go to far. Like nurvana said, religon, or most, is about love and making the world a better place
My my. Religion causes love. Religion causes identity. Religion causes belonging. You may not be conceited enough to worry about yourself, but enough to stick your nose in others' business.
It causes love, for those in your own religion. It creates identity? It creates imaginary friends, and an easy answer as to why we are placed on the Earth. Conceited means to care about yourself btw... so how is it conceited to "ut my nose in others' business."?
It causes love, for those in your own religion. It creates identity? It creates imaginary friends, and an easy answer as to why we are placed on the Earth. Conceited means to care about yourself btw... so how is it conceited to "ut my nose in others' business."?
If religion makes imaginary friends, then atheism makes a reason not to do the right thing, to be free from morals. Conceit is arrogance, and it takes quite a lot to talk the way you do.
so if you think religon makes imaginary friends, what does your science create? stem cell reseach....killing people who havent even been born yet, religon is against that. if everyone has the right to live, why do we have stem cell research and abortion?
If religion makes imaginary friends, then atheism makes a reason not to do the right thing, to be free from morals. Conceit is arrogance, and it takes quite a lot to talk the way you do.
Uhhhh... nice?
Just because someone doesn't believe in something higher that doesn't make them evil. You know that right? Seriously, many religions teach to discriminate gays, women and other religions. They teach other religions are wrong and go to hell, even if they are a good person. If an atheist is a good person but doesn't believe in God, according to almost all religions that person will go to hell.
Please explain to me how I am being arrogant. You're the one giving tiny little responses barely responding to what I am rebutting you with, as if you don't need to because you're automatically right and too good.... hmm THAT sounds more like the definition of arrogance to me.
so if you think religon makes imaginary friends, what does your science create? stem cell reseach....killing people who havent even been born yet, religon is against that. if everyone has the right to live, why do we have stem cell research and abortion?
To answer your question, science basically creates more questions and theories. It creates the most logical possibly theory there is and tries to find ways to disprove itself. Once it does another theory is born. Unlike religion where their magic book is always right no matter contradicting evidence.
Abortion is a moral issue, some believe it is a woman's right if they know the baby won't have a good life or if the baby will kill the mother in childbirth etc, so many other reasons. Stem cell research is to find ways to advance medicine and find cures to diseases, and religion prohibits that so much. Without religion who knows how far we'd be right now in finding the cure to some of our leading diseases.
If an atheist is a good person but doesn't believe in God, according to almost all religions that person will go to hell.
Well that is not a Catholic teaching so *bitch slaps*
Just because someone doesn't believe in something higher that doesn't make them evil. You know that right?
Did I say that?
eriously, many religions teach to discriminate gays, women and other religions.
It's not discrimination, it's wrong. We are steering them in the wrong direction.
Please explain to me how I am being arrogant. You're the one giving tiny little responses barely responding to what I am rebutting you with, as if you don't need to because you're automatically right and too good.... hmm THAT sounds more like the definition of arrogance to me.
It is arrogance because you think you can sit on your high throne and throw down your words of wrath upon the unworthy lay people.
Unlike religion where their magic book is always right no matter contradicting evidence
not true. those "magic books" are not necassarily true. the bible to be specific, is correct on moral issues. the bible is not necessarily correct in historical matters. some people show all these controdictions to Jesus, only because of historical facts, the people who wrote the gospels may not even have been adults when Jesus was alive, the earliest gospel was written around 60 years after Jesus died. There are historical errors in the people. There are no errors at all though, when you are only looking at the moral part and another truth that i can't currently remember the name
Stem cell research is to find ways to advance medicine and find cures to diseases, and religion prohibits that so much
i don't want a cure if that means killing 1000s of unborn embreyos. yes we could cure a disease, but a what cost? how many unborn lives will we take? its immoral
lol, I was a Catholic for 14 years and yes it is a Catholic teaching. Read your magic boo... I mean bible more closely.
You are a very unintelligent little boy. The church does not say that atheists go to hell.
LOL! I think that would be more like this: YOU ARE WRONG AND I AM RIGHT!!11ONEONE YOU ARE AN IDIOT, AND EVERYTHING I SAY IS MORE GOD LIKE THAN YOUR IMAGINARY FRIEND! LOLOLOLOL
Seriously, many religions teach to discriminate gays, women and other religions
the catholic church doesnt teach to discriminate against gays. the bible says that homosexualitly is a serious sin though. the bible also doesn't discriminate against women. when jesus was resurrected, the first people he saw were women. he always included women. the catholic church also doesnt discriminate against other religons. im not going to go into that part right now. anyways this thread is about religon as a whole, not seperate religons.
i don't want a cure if that means killing 1000s of unborn embreyos. yes we could cure a disease, but a what cost? how many unborn lives will we take? its immoral
Hmm yeah you're right, saving millions of lives and spending billions of dollars on alternatives because of these morals is not worth in at all. Think about it, by not doing this research and supporting not doing it you are indirectly killing hundreds... THOUSANDS of people every day.
not true. those "magic books" are not necassarily true. the bible to be specific, is correct on moral issues. the bible is not necessarily correct in historical matters. some people show all these controdictions to Jesus, only because of historical facts, the people who wrote the gospels may not even have been adults when Jesus was alive, the earliest gospel was written around 60 years after Jesus died. There are historical errors in the people. There are no errors at all though, when you are only looking at the moral part and another truth that i can't currently remember the name
I know that it's not true. But many people cling to it as fact, including most priests and other officials. So religion is still being closed minded, even if not all its followers are as closed minded as its teachings.
Hmm yeah you're right, saving millions of lives and spending billions of dollars on alternatives because of these morals is not worth in at all. Think about it, by not doing this research and supporting not doing it you are indirectly killing hundreds... THOUSANDS of people every day.
I doubt you would be eager to be sacrificed for the sake of a cure. One that is coming along quite slowly, I may add.
