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Forums → WEPR → Intelligent design Vs Evolution
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I just now found out about this forum and didn't notice a I.D. Vs E. thread so I decided to make one.
I am a Christian and believe in intelligent design is the way the world came to be.
What does everyone else think about this subject?
- 388 Replies
After two days I'm back, with a gold medal for giving a awesome speech about reading! (yeah yeah yeah nerdy home-school-er)
And i come back to find 3 more pages, lots more people, and my favorite... Insults from alt again! (who reminds me of my neighbor)
1)Let's start with the Sun. Back then, it was believed by the Church that the Sun and all the planets found back then revolved around Earth, because we were put here by God and none other is greater than it. Then, a glorious scientist named Copernicus found that's not the case. He was executed for blasphemy against God's will. Later, it was becoming more plausible and people began to question the religion, so the Church wrote it in the bible.
1. where did it say the earth was in the center.
2. where does it say the sun is in the center
3. read the old texts in your not so easy to come by spare time.
2)As more and more organisms of varying complexities were being dug up, Noah's ark was in danger of sinking. To counter this, the Church has adopted the idea that Noah brought to his ark different "kinds" of animals. The idea that it was done in a thousand years still defeated it, and the Church was left baffled; Noah's ark sank.
1. The ark was huge and had a awesome design.
2. only 2 of a kind (2 cats 2 dogs 2 birds ect.)
. . no. I'm talking about amino acids in space.
Cool, try doing it again, but this time don't let amino acids jump on the ten foil.
About 4.6 billion, actually.
You know, i'ver heard the earth was hot when evolutionists say when stuff was evolutioning (evolving or whatever) but, it seems tough to evolve when the planet your on is in the sun.
http://prophecyarchive.com/ray/barr-family.com/godsword/old.htm
http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=165
Are you even reading your own posts? That's not what you said. At all. You said that there being no time wasn't a fact. I proved it was, refuting you. What you said up thar ^^ that I quoted is you ignoring me to try to stay alive in this debate, which you lost a long time ago. You're just making things up now.`
Please re-read my original post.
God can't make 2+2=5, because 2+2 cannot logically equal 5.
And also, if god made the world he would also have created logic itself.
Our planet has the Perfect size, rotation, stellar Position Chemical composition to create life beyond bacterias and one cellular organisms. Our comparable large moon keeps the earth from rotating to quickly and creates currents.
Odd "coincidence" indeed...
Matter IS everlasting. Matter can not be created or destroyed.
Well, actually that has never been proven to be true. It has only yet to be disproved. However to the most of our knowledge that is most likely true.
Supposedly infinity aught not exist yet the universe is supposedly infinite. But if the universe is not infinite what is beyond its boundries(O_o)?
That is very interesting to ponder. Because if it is finite then we should be drifting to "the center" of space.
evolution is clearly proven.
Unless your text books have been changed again there is also a lot of stuff against it.
If we have talking electrons maybe the first thing they will say is "Hello World".
Nooooo, it would say "Take me to your leader" duuuuhhh :P
There's really no point in continuing the argument, as it is clarified that god cannot do the logically impossible.
Well then just remember our previous argument on logic. Oh no wait that didn't conclude either. "Sigh" human logic is subjective, God's logic is objective as he is omniscient; something being logically impossible to us doesn't mean it is necessarily illogical to him. The logically impossible tasks refer to things such as creating a spherical triangle, this is impossible because we have a concrete understanding of a sphere and a triangle. We don't have a concrete understanding of our reality however as it's subjective.
Soooo . . . Catholicism doesn't understand what theologists say is right?
Or the bible *grumbles*. Correct.
I'm not polarizing the Protestants. I'm just speaking for Catholics.
Who are Christians.
And also, if god made the world he would also have created logic itself.
God. 2+2=5 is illogical because it's going against a concrete objective fact.
Oh noez another Christan home schooler ;P
[link]rn
If you guys continue these arguments, you'll be arguing against the general consensus among the professionally qualified people on your side.
There's really no point in continuing the argument, as it is clarified that god cannot do the logically impossible.
Let's not say it's "ointless" for it shows, untrue it may be, a fear of what the opposition might have to say. You raise an interesting question. First of all, the issues of him being able to create a more powerful being are a lot more complex than 2+2=5. and unless the person aswering that question is a Vatican official, they are not the "roffesional amung us".
Here is the simplest way to explain it: Eveything is God. Except evil, which allowed by God to exist via Satan (that'll backfire on me somehow). If God were to create a rock too heavy for him to lift, that rock would be God. This is yet another example of true omnipotence, the everlasting quality of his power.
Vatican official, they are not the "roffesional amung us".
*Facepalm* yes because no one outside the Catholic church can know anything about the will of God or the bible.
If God were to create a rock too heavy for him to lift, that rock would be God.
Er. No.
Eveything is God. Except evil, which allowed by God to exist via Satan
This isn't true. God isn't hate, evil, pride, etc. The point of evil is to allow the freedom of choice.
Here's something to think about before I have to go.
If everyone in the world decided the 2+2=5, would 2+2=5? Does the majority control logic?
If everyone in the world decided the 2+2=5, would 2+2=5? Does the majority control logic?
Then 3+2=4?
Logic has to operate on set rules that our completely known and completely objective.
Logic has to operate on set rules that our completely known and completely objective.
Exactly.
But could "we" change that standard? Kinda like moral relativists. I'm not saying I'm on this side. (Which i am completely against actually) But I have met people who have (technically) no standards. So if i said i "believe 2+2=5. it would be somehow wrong (Hehehe contradiction again) to impose his "views" on me that 2+2 really = 4.
It doesn't work, but without the bible and God, there isn't really ever a standard. everything is just random chemical reactions in our "minds".
This isn't true. God isn't hate, evil, pride, etc. The point of evil is to allow the freedom of choice.
I said God wasn't evil.
[/quote]*Facepalm* yes because no one outside the Catholic church can know anything about the will of God or the bible.
[quote]
Well to put it quite simply God isn't speaking directly to them
Soooo . . . Catholicism doesn't understand what theologists say is right?
Basically, Catholicism is blatantly wrong here - omnipotence does not include that which is nothing. Logically impossible things cannot be done by power, therefore not even god, who is all-powerful, can perform such tasks.
I'm sorry if yo can't grasp it, but in essance that's it and I can't choose what you can and cannot discern. Not to mention AG messaging isn't the best for the relaying of complex ideals.
Well to put it quite simply God isn't speaking directly to
them
Give me one reason as to why this statement is true. Preferably one from scripture.
I thought you were going to bed :P
forget I said that it's late and I'm tired. But quite simply, someone on a answers site probably can't relay the kind of answer the Pontiff can. I'm sure you agree.
Insults from alt again! (who reminds me of my neighbor)
I insulted nobody. Please don't make mountains out of molehills.
Please re-read my original post.
No, you reread our argument thus far. Either that, or we dismiss this as as misunderstanding.
And also, if god made the world he would also have created logic itself.
Then he created logic as dictating that 2+2=4. Just because he created something doesn't mean he can violate it - god is all-powerful, but he cannot do what cannot be done by power, because such things are nothing and cannot exist. God cannot do everything - he cannot tolerate evil, or commit sin, or do the logically impossible. Why? Because the logically possible cannot be done by any amount of power or ability because it is nothing and cannot exist. I have backed up my point multiple times, and you haven't done a thing to refute it.
Cool, try doing it again, but this time don't let amino acids jump on the ten foil.
This claim is completely unsupported. It does nothing to refute my point and therefore is invalid.
You know, i'ver heard the earth was hot when evolutionists say when stuff was evolutioning (evolving or whatever) but, it seems tough to evolve when the planet your on is in the sun.
Both of your sources are painlessly and easily refuted by this.
Also, check the table of contents and make sure to not make any of the other silly arguments refuted by that site. kthxbai.
Odd "coincidence" indeed...
No. Think of our Earth as the mold. We are the item created by it. It is not a coincidence that we fit the mold - we were made from the mold and materials in it, therefore we should fit perfectly.
Unless your text books have been changed again there is also a lot of stuff against it.
Cite some evidence that isn't overshadowed by the evidence for it.
Nooooo, it would say "Take me to your leader" duuuuhhh :P
I bet it would make one of those corny particle jokes.
A neutron walked into the bar. It asked, "how much for a drink?"
"For you, no charge!"
Well then just remember our previous argument on logic. Oh no wait that didn't conclude either. "Sigh" human logic is subjective, God's logic is objective as he is omniscient; something being logically impossible to us doesn't mean it is necessarily illogical to him. The logically impossible tasks refer to things such as creating a spherical triangle, this is impossible because we have a concrete understanding of a sphere and a triangle. We don't have a concrete understanding of our reality however as it's subjective.
Actually, I won that debate. Logic is objective unless you're an existentialist or a Foucault studier and it's safe to say that if you take either of those sides, you're necessarily crazy to not be qualified to debate, lol. Not to be mean.
The reason god cannot do the logically impossible is - and I've stated this a TON - is because god has infinite power, but that which cannot be accomplished by power or other abilities cannot be accomplished by god. God doing the logically impossible is the same as god creating a rock he can't lift - it's a contradictory circumstance.
If everyone in the world decided the 2+2=5, would 2+2=5? Does the majority control logic?
No. Logic is necessarily correct(again, unless you're a Foucaulter or an existentialist, and not to poopoo these guys, but they're irrelevant here). When it comes to argument like this, logic is necessarily correct and cannot be wrong. Instances of people being wrong are people being illogical, not using bad logic.
I'm sorry if yo can't grasp it, but in essance that's it and I can't choose what you can and cannot discern. Not to mention AG messaging isn't the best for the relaying of complex ideals.
Either way, you're not really refuting my point at all . . . you're just saying that the Catholic church, to the best of your knowledge, disagrees with me. That doesn't refute my point at all, and until you can knock it down, it still stands.
I can definitely grasp it - please try to not come off as condescending - but when it comes to the argument, I'm simply winning on this one, and I will be until you can provide an actual refutation.
But could "we" change that standard?
We couldn't. If 2+2=5, it would be our definitions that change, not the laws of the Universe. So, unless your definition of 5 was the same as everybody else's definition of 4, you would be wrong.
We couldn't.2-0!!
We couldn't. If 2+2=5, it would be our definitions that change, not the laws of the Universe. So, unless your definition of 5 was the same as everybody else's definition of 4, you would be wrong.
But if evolution is true thoughts are just random chemical reactions. So how do you know if you are wrong or right? it is impossible.
I'll answer the rest of your manifesto tomorrow.
"For you, no charge!"
ahahahaha
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