Nonono see, that's just an expression. They're not gonna "say" anything, they're going to display information, of either God, or of the Big Bang, or of something we'd never think of.
Should have added a :P to the end. I knew what you were saying I was joking.
ID is not irrefutable, and your argument proves itself wrong.
Everything is set in motion by another force, so where did this everlasting being come from? If you can believe in an everlasting being... why couldn't matter just be everlasting?
because matter is not taught to be everlasting. And no, an everlasting being. Everlasting as in made by nothing. Because if it was made by something, then it too would need something before it.
First force would be all the matter in the universe reaching critical mass and expanding. Clearly a most complex being existing before even complex molecules existed isn't the only explanation nor the best. But this is the Big Bang theory not evolution.
Ummm . . . why would the first force be an omnipotent, sentient being? And also, it's impossible to be made from nothing. If God has no physical catalyst for manifestation, then he can't interact with the physical world. God can't create matter if there is no matter there, because he would have to be able to interact with the physical world through an object - God cannot do the logically impossible, in this case interacting with the physical world nonphysically.
because matter is not taught to be everlasting. And no, an everlasting being. Everlasting as in made by nothing. Because if it was made by something, then it too would need something before it.
This isn't really a topic we can discuss via computer :P but I shalt try!
Thisisnotanalt, I was certainly pleased to have you greet me, I feel welcomed! Well this is the deal: if there is in fact a God, then the logical for us would be nothing. So the "illogical" would be logical to him. And actually, just politely to get it out of the way, you really don't need to say what God can or cannot do. So to attempt to put it into perspective, God's eternity is beyond our comprehension, to which the refution (is that a word?) of big banganation (lol) is comprehendable.
Magey; try reading it again, and if you can't understand, please he more specific okay?
God cannot do the logically impossible, in this case interacting with the physical world nonphysically.
Logic again? As Cinna said God's logic will seem foolish to man. You seem to have a faith in human infallibility and the infallibility of your own ideas.
Thisisnotanalt, I was certainly pleased to have you greet me, I feel welcomed! Well this is the deal: if there is in fact a God, then the logical for us would be nothing. So the "illogical" would be logical to him. And actually, just politely to get it out of the way, you really don't need to say what God can or cannot do. So to attempt to put it into perspective, God's eternity is beyond our comprehension, to which the refution (is that a word?) of big banganation (lol) is comprehendable.
No, omnipotence encompasses all that is logically possible. God is supposedly omnipotent. Therefore, he can do all that is logically possible. The logically impossible cannot exist and therefore cannot be done by god.
God can't make 2+2=5, because 2+2 cannot logically equal 5.
And on god being made of nothing . . . if god is made of nothing, then god by definition would not exist. So unless you're arguing as an atheist, you should phrase differently.
You seem to have a faith in human infallibility and the infallibility of your own ideas.
Umm . . . samy, when did your politeness gland fail? >_>
No, I just know that the logically impossible cannot exist. Even Christian websites back me up. Omnipotence does not include being able to do that which is impossible, so I am correct. It is completely impossible for god to interact with the physical world and create matter if there is no matter, because without matter, there is no physical world.
Umm . . . samy, when did your politeness gland fail? >_>
After a disappointing Bigfoot conference..my sincerest apologies.
The Bible makes it clear that God is able to do anything He wants to, and that nothing He wants to do is too difficult for Him to accomplish.4 This is the true meaning of omnipotence.
No, omnipotence encompasses all that is logically possible. God is supposedly omnipotent. Therefore, he can do all that is logically possible. The logically impossible cannot exist and therefore cannot be done by god.
God can't make 2+2=5, because 2+2 cannot logically equal 5.
And on god being made of nothing . . . if god is made of nothing, then god by definition would not exist. So unless you're arguing as an atheist, you should phrase differently.
We as Catholics believe that there is a God who can do anything. The beliefs of Catholics clearly state so. Our logic is not his logic. If a kindergartener tried to tell you that 2+2=17, just because it was "logical" you would laugh. We are kindergartener compared to the wisdom of God. And as far as the "nothing" goes, he isn't made of nothing, he wasn't made by anything. Hope that clarifies.
So most theologians define âomnipotenceâ as the ability to achieve what is logically possible. So this doesn't include the contradictory things as above.
If you guys continue these arguments, you'll be arguing against the general consensus among the professionally qualified people on your side. There's really no point in continuing the argument, as it is clarified that god cannot do the logically impossible.
We as Catholics believe that there is a God who can do anything. The beliefs of Catholics clearly state so. Our logic is not his logic. If a kindergartener tried to tell you that 2+2=17, just because it was "logical" you would laugh. We are kindergartener compared to the wisdom of God. And as far as the "nothing" goes, he isn't made of nothing, he wasn't made by anything. Hope that clarifies.
Soooo . . . Catholicism doesn't understand what theologists say is right? Basically, Catholicism is blatantly wrong here - omnipotence does not include that which is nothing. Logically impossible things cannot be done by power, therefore not even god, who is all-powerful, can perform such tasks.
