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Forums → WEPR → Intelligent design Vs Evolution
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I just now found out about this forum and didn't notice a I.D. Vs E. thread so I decided to make one.
I am a Christian and believe in intelligent design is the way the world came to be.
What does everyone else think about this subject?
- 388 Replies
I'm a declared atheist but what i dont understand is that if we stopped reasoning as to the cycle of energy and matter. How do we fundermentally explain their existence?
Describe fire to me as no one has ever given me a decent explanation of it. Think i might post it as a forum topic actually
I'm a declared atheist but what i dont understand is that if we stopped reasoning as to the cycle of energy and matter. How do we fundermentally explain their existence?
I'm not sure if I follow your question care to elaborate?
Describe fire to me as no one has ever given me a decent explanation of it.
Rapid oxidation of materials resulting in gases that give off light and heat.
Nature by it's very definition is chaotic. To impose order and design upon nature is a human ideology. Since nature itself, the very universe, is chaotic it stands to reason it was not intelligently designed, for that would require logic and the nature of nature is not logical.
Thats a Post i made on another board, but i guess it fits here pretty good too.
to the question about us beeing created...well we should not think so much about Creation VS evolution because evolution is clearly proven.
But Evolution doesnt mean that there is no creation. When i was young i believed in Creation, then i learned about evolution and then i believed in that. Then again i learn quite much about evolution/anthopology and astrophysics and i must say im back to creation.
Our existence is such a coincidence its unbelievable. Our planet has the Perfect size, rotation, stellar Position Chemical composition to create life beyond bacterias and one cellular organisms. Our comparable large moon keeps the earth from rotating to quickly and creates currents.
I could go on and on. the fact is that every little coincidence that was vital for our existence is nearly impossible small. There is life on other planets, on nearly all planets in our solar system to be exact. But its just bacteria life and wont ever become intelligent or even evolve out of this state.
We got the playground and the tools to become what we are now. We cant understand it because we are ...well too dumb to understand a masterplan like this. However we build Supercomputer`s that mapped the whole known universe, a task no person could EVER do. Still a computer could do it. So lets say a supreme being or intelligence who is real smart and omnipotent could create us. It could lay the foundation and it could predict the outcome (predict every bacteria cloning, every little mutation everything!) its just mathematics. If u have the sourcecode of the universe then it`s not such a big deal.
For what purpose? well i dont really know, i have my speculations but they are just...speculations. But the fact that we are here still remains. And its by FAR too impossible for beeing a coincidence.
I know the phrase "intelligent design" has been used to death. But it describes our exitence best. Maybe we should say
"really huge Ginorumous Intelligent design"
ok thats a long post...but its also a hard topic and i guess i Nutshelled it pretty good
Our existence is such a coincidence its unbelievable. Our planet has the Perfect size, rotation, stellar Position Chemical composition to create life beyond bacterias and one cellular organisms. Our comparable large moon keeps the earth from rotating to quickly and creates currents.
All the conditions here seem to be perfect for us because we adapted to it. If the conditions were different we would have adapted differently. The conditions didn't conform to us, but we to the conditions. Also even if the odds are extremely low that all these conditions could come together. The number of possible places it could happen could leave us with it happening hundreds even up to millions of times just in our galaxy alone. So just playing to odds even if we didn't hit the jackpot it's likely some other place would and even has.
There is life on other planets, on nearly all planets in our solar system to be exact. But its just bacteria life and wont ever become intelligent or even evolve out of this state.
We have yet to find any extra terrestrial life on any planet. There are possible places in out solar system that could potentially harbor life but even here it is possible they could be multicellular. So saying there is life on nearly all planets in our solar system and it's only bacteria is nothing more then an assertion.
So lets say a supreme being or intelligence who is real smart and omnipotent could create us.
If we are designed we were designed very poorly. Breathing passages connected to oral passages, two orifices for waste extraction when only one is required and would create far less physical problems. A framework that often results in pain later in life. Virtually unnecessary organs prone to life threatening failure. Useless physical reactions and features. Lack of redundancy of certain vital organs.
All this also ignores that we have observed instances of evolution. ID doesn't offer any explanation as to how things like the geological distribution, phylogenetic tree of life, and molecular tree of life all match up.
If not for evolution we wouldn't have to develop new vaccines. The only counter I have heard to this is "micro evolution happens but not macro evolution". This of course is a very ignorant statement to make since they are the same thing only a difference in scale.
We have yet to find any extra terrestrial life on any planet. There are possible places in out solar system that could potentially harbor life but even here it is possible they could be multicellular. So saying there is life on nearly all planets in our solar system and it's only bacteria is nothing more then an assertion.
Well... we did find evidence of bacterial life on Mars, but thats it. The remains(fossils, I don't know what dead bacteria counts as) was very old, as it was from the time when Mars had water on it.
Our planet has the Perfect size, rotation, stellar Position Chemical composition to create life beyond bacterias and one cellular organisms. Our comparable large moon keeps the earth from rotating to quickly and creates currents.
The conditions aren't perfect because there's life, there's life because of the perfect conditions. Also, what Mage said. And our rotation is not perfect, the axis wobbles, In like 20,000 years, Vega will be our new North Star, not Polaris.
I haven't read the whole forum, so forgive me if I'm being redundant, but honestly intelligent design is quite irrefutable. Everything is set in motion by another force; there had to be a first force, and the only explaination for that is an evelasting being. As for how this led to dispute in poles, I'll never know :P
Everything is set in motion by another force; there had to be a first force, and the only explaination for that is an evelasting being.
You just contradicted yourself.
ID is not irrefutable, and your argument proves itself wrong.
Everything is set in motion by another force, so where did this everlasting being come from? If you can believe in an everlasting being... why couldn't matter just be everlasting?
Well... we did find evidence of bacterial life on Mars, but thats it. The remains(fossils, I don't know what dead bacteria counts as) was very old, as it was from the time when Mars had water on it.
The samples were contaminated. We were never able to definitively determine if what was found was from Mars. Though given how Mars once had liquid water it is possible simple bacterial life could have formed. There is also speculation of life being on Europa. If there is, it's very possible it could be complex multicellular life.
I haven't read the whole forum, so forgive me if I'm being redundant, but honestly intelligent design is quite irrefutable. Everything is set in motion by another force; there had to be a first force, and the only explaination for that is an evelasting being. As for how this led to dispute in poles, I'll never know :P
First force would be all the matter in the universe reaching critical mass and expanding. Clearly a most complex being existing before even complex molecules existed isn't the only explanation nor the best. But this is the Big Bang theory not evolution.
If you can believe in an everlasting being... why couldn't matter just be everlasting?
Matter IS everlasting. Matter can not be created or destroyed.
An interesting set of information:
Scientists say that electrons can store information. Record information, more like...A single electron can hold the same amount of information as a public library, and electrons last millions of billions of years before being recycled. I can't remember how old the universe is estimated to be, but why can't we just learn to tap into the electron's information and learn what happened in the big bang? Obviously the first thing that electron is going to say is either "WTFGOD" or "WTFBIGBANG".
Or, something else?! We'll never know until we try.
Obviously the first thing that electron is going to say is either "WTFGOD" or "WTFBIGBANG".
If we have talking electrons maybe the first thing they will say is "Hello World".
If we have talking electrons maybe the first thing they will say is "Hello World".
Nonono see, that's just an expression. They're not gonna "say" anything, they're going to display information, of either God, or of the Big Bang, or of something we'd never think of.
Scientists say that electrons can store information. Record information, more like...A single electron can hold the same amount of information as a public library, and electrons last millions of billions of years before being recycled. I can't remember how old the universe is estimated to be, but why can't we just learn to tap into the electron's information and learn what happened in the big bang? Obviously the first thing that electron is going to say is either "WTFGOD" or "WTFBIGBANG".
Which drug were you smoking today?
More or which drug was the news smoking.
I read about that a long time ago, too. Like, a year ago.
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