ForumsWEPRThe dragon told the donkey to speak to the ghost: Absurdities in the Bible

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314d1
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314d1
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Nomad

We all know the Bible is full of weird things. This thread is mainly to discuss the unbelievable portions of the Bible, and why you believe them.

For a side not, if you are going to state "They are just metaphors!" then could you pleas also put what parts are not metaphors as well, as that differs from person to person... Also, if you are going to answer "CONTEXT!" please either back it up or go in a dark room and hit your head against the wall repeatedly.

To start off, I will open with a list.

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ShadowShank696
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ShadowShank696
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its my gods word (im Christan) and most of the stuff in the bible is metaphors for how you should live your life the bible when it comes to the bible you dont have to have a logic answer for everything

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

Then how did this first matter come to be?


Already pointed out matter/energy is neither created or destroyed.

As I explained in another thread we are starting with the most basic stuff and working our way up.

its my gods word (im Christan) and most of the stuff in the bible is metaphors for how you should live your life the bible when it comes to the bible you dont have to have a logic answer for everything


Kind of what I'm getting at. If the Bible our source of where the concept of this particular God comes from is metaphor, then should the God of the Bible also be regarded as metaphor?
squidlidink
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squidlidink
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"He made the stars also." God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars.


yeah that's pretty ridiculous, because not only is "The light in the sky called the moon, not the moon (which has no light) it is also the sun, but the stars are all about the same size as the star we call the sun, if not bigger.

However, we aren't supposed to believe everything in the bible, it's really just for explaining the ultimate powers of God. Like my religion teacher says, All is true, only some actually happened. God did create everything, but perhaps not in the exact way depicted. (the big bang is one example) Unlike most people think, you can mix science with religion and not go to hell for it.
Tibbers
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Tibbers
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Before the big bang, all matter and energy was already there, just compressed. It didn't just appear in the huge explosion that happened. Yea, it's hard to believe. But so is the Creationism theory of how life came to be. But whatever happened, happened. So just enjoy life. :P Lol. There's a solution.

314d1
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314d1
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I think humans are weird. I mean, they cannot do anything right! Humans are weird, I think that that would pretty much solve the whole equation.


Ya, we can do nothing right. We have never succeeded in sending something, let alone human, into outer space. We have never made a weapon capable of killing something a mile away. We have never made anything that can fly a load of human or non human over oceans. We have never made a weapon that could end all life on earth if we decided to use it in war. We have never made a written language, we have never...

Yep. Pretty useless.
Kevin4762
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Kevin4762
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What's up with the religion threads trend going on, now.

snipershot325
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snipershot325
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????what is this suppose to mean??

AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
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Blacksmith

please either back it up or go in a dark room and hit your head against the wall repeatedly.


After reading through this Im about ready to give that a try!
nonconformist
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Good thing we only have theists stating fallacies of what scientific theories state making such claims.

Considering many scientific theories have been proven false over time, i cant say i can trust 100% in alot of them, especially in this case... Considering theres many plausible theories none of which proven 100% (other than the theory of evolution which could be disproved later on in time). Thus why its called a theory and not a scientific fact. For example... The theory of how the earth was flat. Soon changed to the theory of the earth is round, thus changing to the fact that the earth is round using technology to go into outerspace and finding out it truely is. Theories are basically a scientific version of faith. You write about it, people constantly try to disprove it, and if enough people realize there are to many flaws, it becomes obsolete and changes into a different theory. Religion is the same way, in the fact that only the superior religions, with enough evidence to back up there claims manage to stay alive through out the centuries.


Matter/energy can not be created or destroyed.

Ok so if its impossible for it to be created, and impossible for it to be destroyed, then how did it come to exist? It was just always there, from the beginning of time? Out of nothing there was something? Or out of everything there was nothing? It justs sounds like one of those nonsence riddles. Its basically falsifying itself, because everything is made from matter and energy, but if it cant be created, then we would be living in a dream world made of illusion because everything has to be created from matter and energy. Anyways my point is if energy and matter cant be created or destroyed then how would it exist... What caused the first movement in space out of all the supposedly always made matter..

then should the God of the Bible also be regarded as metaphor?]

Well what would the God be a a metaphor of though. Metaphors are generally inclined to be talking about one thing while meaning another. So if God was a mataphor it would only mean that we were talking about something else higher up that created this world and showed right from wrong. The only examples i can think of is a superior being (Alien life, or Aliens..) or another superior being... If your looking to make it sound like God could be in the form of a science or karma i think the proper wording would be personification.

Either way, theories have alot of points that can be disproven too, and basing that all my points could be wrong on scientific theories, not scientific facts doesn't make you right. Especially Considering Catholicism has yet to be fully disproven, and many many scientific theories have been.

I agree all that does sound as far fetched as Adam and Eve. Good thing we only have theists stating fallacies of what scientific theories state making such claims.


And i shouldnt have said fallacies... I shoulda just said far fetched.. Because I suppose, a big bang with all those perfect coincidences could happen...

Avorne
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Avorne
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I would like to post this in response to Nonc:

Scientific theory is a series of statements about the causal elements for a given effect, usually theories are large bodies of work that has resulted from many contributors. Theories are often built up over time that unify the scientific community's view and approach to a particular scientific field. For example; biology has the theory of evolution, geology has plate tectonic theory and cosmology has the Big Bang. The development of theories is a key element of the scientific method as they are used to make predictions about the world, and if the predictions fail, the theory is revised. Theories are the main goal in science and no explanation can achieve a higher "rank" (contrary to the belief that "theories" become "laws" over time).
314d1
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314d1
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Considering many scientific theories have been proven false over time, i cant say i can trust 100% in alot of them, especially in this case... Considering theres many plausible theories none of which proven 100% (other than the theory of evolution which could be disproved later on in time). Thus why its called a theory and not a scientific fact. For example... The theory of how the earth was flat. Soon changed to the theory of the earth is round, thus changing to the fact that the earth is round using technology to go into outerspace and finding out it truely is. Theories are basically a scientific version of faith. You write about it, people constantly try to disprove it, and if enough people realize there are to many flaws, it becomes obsolete and changes into a different theory. Religion is the same way, in the fact that only the superior religions, with enough evidence to back up there claims manage to stay alive through out the centuries.


Considering how 100% of the religions have been proved false, I would think that they are even more unreliable then evidence and fact. The theories that said the earth was flat were based on religion and stories that seamen would tell the merchants to get higher prices.

Do you seriously think it is fact that kept the religion alive? It is mostly the threat of hell and the domination of war that has aloud the religion to live.

Ok so if its impossible for it to be created, and impossible for it to be destroyed, then how did it come to exist? It was just always there, from the beginning of time? Out of nothing there was something? Or out of everything there was nothing? It justs sounds like one of those nonsence riddles. Its basically falsifying itself, because everything is made from matter and energy, but if it cant be created, then we would be living in a dream world made of illusion because everything has to be created from matter and energy. Anyways my point is if energy and matter cant be created or destroyed then how would it exist... What caused the first movement in space out of all the supposedly always made matter..


The matter would always have to have been there, same goes for time. But applying this to the other side, god always would have to be there as well defeating the point. Your "theory" does not explain your half. If god could always be there, then why can't matter/energy?

Well what would the God be a a metaphor of though. Metaphors are generally inclined to be talking about one thing while meaning another. So if God was a mataphor it would only mean that we were talking about something else higher up that created this world and showed right from wrong. The only examples i can think of is a superior being (Alien life, or Aliens..) or another superior being... If your looking to make it sound like God could be in the form of a science or karma i think the proper wording would be personification.


He could easily be a metaphor for the laws of the universe, though he is more likely a failed attempt at explanation.

Either way, theories have alot of points that can be disproven too, and basing that all my points could be wrong on scientific theories, not scientific facts doesn't make you right. Especially Considering Catholicism has yet to be fully disproven, and many many scientific theories have been.


Theories can be dis proven and corrected. It is the and corrected part that is the important part. If a religion is proved one part wrong, then the whole thing should be considered wrong. If part of a scientific theory is proven wrong, it should be corrected. You can't prove something doesn't exist, you can only prove that it does not have an effect on the world.
CommanderDude7
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Considering how 100% of the religions have been proved false, I would think that they are even more unreliable then evidence and fact.

hmm interesting I guess thats why no one follows religion anymore
314d1
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hmm interesting I guess thats why no one follows religion anymore


It is why no one should. Many fool themselves by stating the parts that are proven incorrect are only metaphor or they go as far as outright ignoring the facts.
nonconformist
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The matter would always have to have been there, same goes for time. But applying this to the other side, god always would have to be there as well defeating the point. Your "theory" does not explain your half. If god could always be there, then why can't matter/energy?

Alright sure we could theoretically go with that. Why not. Alright so your saying God could've always been there, so technically speaking matter/ energy could've always been there. Alright. But you see, most athiests dont put God and science on the same page, due to the fact that your now saying you believe in something non scientific. Your putting your faith into something. Because God could've existed so could've matter/particles. But ok, they were just there, we will say that. But even so, these google amounts of matter particles, what caused the first motion in order to cause this matter to move? Outer space has no gravity, so technically speaking, a bunch of particles had to get together before hand, causing a gravitational pull to cause movement in space.

Considering how 100% of the religions have been proved false, I would think that they are even more unreliable then evidence and fact. The theories that said the earth was flat were based on religion and stories that seamen would tell the merchants to get higher prices.

Actually all religions are onle seen proven false in some eyes. If they were legitamately proven false there would be no such thing as religion, and would be deemed unuseful and people would be made a mockery of. But again, i suppose I should just let you know, that making claims that all religions are false is kinda obsurd, and showing lack of maturity, and really kinda out there. Sure its your belief, so instead of saying "they have been proven false" when they never have been, maybe say "I believe all religions are false"... Or i suppose just um, give some sites to back this miraculous claim up.

He could easily be a metaphor for the laws of the universe, though he is more likely a failed attempt at explanation.

Learn a little bit more about the religion your accusing of being blasphomy, because right now this is just another ignorant comment you've made throughout your post. Never has he been the law for the universe. He has been the law of moral judgement for man. Your only thinking of how God created the universe which was only one story, not the whole bible as a whole.

Theories can be dis proven and corrected. It is the and corrected part that is the important part. If a religion is proved one part wrong, then the whole thing should be considered wrong. If part of a scientific theory is proven wrong, it should be corrected. You can't prove something doesn't exist, you can only prove that it does not have an effect on the world.

But metaphorical stories technically speaking can be proved wrong all the time... Which is why you can't defeat christianity by saying "well you cant live in a whale". Because thats not even close to the point of christianity. And so far by seeing every arguement you've given agaist christianity I still don't think you even have a grasp on understanding what this religion is about. Thus why I respect Mage during most of his debates, because he knows what he talks about. (Now that im not letting this get me angry, and now that im trying to actually debate this issue)

Do you seriously think it is fact that kept the religion alive? It is mostly the threat of hell and the domination of war that has aloud the religion to live.

Majority of those threatened by the wraith of God has actually moved on to athiesm. The minority that stay are a little over the top. Most catholics stay in the religion, because its the moral choices that make you feel good about yourself, and believing that when we die we will have a good place to go.

It is why no one should. Many fool themselves by stating the parts that are proven incorrect are only metaphor or they go as far as outright ignoring the facts.

Ignoring the facts you constantly state based on stories in the old testament on right and wrong moral judement, that you have so constantly tried to find loop holes around. Yes we have, because your arguing over fictional stories told to give the listeners moral lessons. Not so we can sit there and be amazed that someone actually got eaten by a whale and survived for 3 days.

MageGrayWolf
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Considering many scientific theories have been proven false over time, i cant say i can trust 100% in alot of them


This right here shows your lack of understanding of the scientific method. Nothing in Science is meant to be 100% you always have to leave room for improvement or the possibility of being wrong.
Something in science not being 100% isn't a weakness of it but a strength.

Thus why its called a theory and not a scientific fact.


In some cases it's both. A theory in science is just the explanation for the facts we observe.

The theory of how the earth was flat. Soon changed to the theory of the earth is round, thus changing to the fact that the earth is round using technology to go into outerspace and finding out it truely is. Theories are basically a scientific version of faith.


As stated above a theory is an explanation for the facts. Faith is believing without proof. It's nothing like faith at all.
BTW, current evidence suggests the Earth is spheroidal, not actually round. This doesn't make the round Earth wrong just a refined way of looking at it.

For example can you count to 2. Well let's test this, 1 2. Okay so the answer is then yes we can count to two. but we then gain further evidence of fractions. We take this new evidence and try counting again, 1.000...1 1.000...2 1.000...3 etc. With the new evidence the answer is then no we can't. But we can't just through out our old evidence that we could. So we continue our research. a fraction isn't a whole number. So we can then refine the theory and say, when counting in whole numbers we can count to 2. the original statement wasn't exactly wrong just less refined.

Alright sure we could theoretically go with that. Why not. Alright so your saying God could've always been there, so technically speaking matter/ energy could've always been there. Alright. But you see, most athiests dont put God and science on the same page, due to the fact that your now saying you believe in something non scientific. Your putting your faith into something. Because God could've existed so could've matter/particles. But ok, they were just there, we will say that. But even so, these google amounts of matter particles, what caused the first motion in order to cause this matter to move? Outer space has no gravity, so technically speaking, a bunch of particles had to get together before hand, causing a gravitational pull to cause movement in space.


As I have explained when you have a lot of pressure you end up with heat which is basically just particles in motion. space as such time didn't exist until "after" the Big Bang (keep in mind I use terms like before and after loosely here). Everything existed in a quantum state, thus followed the rules of quantum physics.

Well what would the God be a a metaphor of though. Metaphors are generally inclined to be talking about one thing while meaning another. So if God was a mataphor it would only mean that we were talking about something else higher up that created this world and showed right from wrong. The only examples i can think of is a superior being (Alien life, or Aliens..) or another superior being.


Or perhaps it was just natural events anthropomorphized. For instance how God is described in the story of Moses sounds an awful like they were describing a volcano.

And i shouldnt have said fallacies... I shoulda just said far fetched.. Because I suppose, a big bang with all those perfect coincidences could happen...


You didn't say fallacy, I did. You started with the incurracy of something coming from nothing. Combined a number of theories as if it was all one theory, and even if we were to separate them would still be woefully misinterpreted. Added &quoterfect" a lot. Claimed chemical processes were magic. Then basically said this is what science is saying and it's far fetched.
No that's not what science is saying and the way you were going I was almost expecting you to ask how do magnets work next. (cookie for the reference)


But metaphorical stories technically speaking can be proved wrong all the time... Which is why you can't defeat christianity by saying "well you cant live in a whale".


We can argue from this point when it isn't claimed to just be a metaphor. Of course this is then when the arguments of "it's just a metaphor" appear and usually not before. While a fictional story can defiantly teach a moral concept, we can then ask are the morals that are coming from all these stories really good morals to hold? It also raises the questing of what parts are to be considered fictional and what parts are not. This seems to often be rather open ended.

Majority of those threatened by the wraith of God has actually moved on to athiesm.


If someone felt threatened by such a being and that being was basically saying believe and follow me or else. Does it really make sense that those people would then turn away from that being out of fear?
There are reasons why people don't believe in any god, fear of a god isn't one of them.

Ignoring the facts you constantly state based on stories in the old testament on right and wrong moral judement, that you have so constantly tried to find loop holes around. Yes we have, because your arguing over fictional stories told to give the listeners moral lessons. Not so we can sit there and be amazed that someone actually got eaten by a whale and survived for 3 days.


Keep in mind these things weren't always regarded as just metaphorical stories. As the history of the religion goes it's only been the past couple hundred year or so that these things were not regarded as really accounts but metaphorical stories.
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