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mdv96
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mdv96
1,017 posts
Nomad

What do you think about this? I feel that it should not be built at ground zero because I find that extremely disrespectful to the families and victims of that infamous day.

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EnterOrion
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EnterOrion
4,220 posts
Nomad

Why can we not be mature and forgive and tolerate?
Wouldn't it be a mature and peaceful step to showing muslims that we accept there reglion.
How many more young men and women need to die before you relize that we need more peaceful steps like this.


Sorry, but with people who are still seeking to wipe you from the Earth, that makes no sense. 1%, lets say, are extremists. That's a lot of people. Just so you know. Around 15 million.

Chances are, there are more than one of these guys who are going to see this as final victory. They've won.

If it fails it fails, and just like everything else, it will(possibly) be shut down.


If it will fail, why build it? This is not something that will succeed, and is inviting violence. Building it, with such a low chance of attendance, and high chance of violence, is just stupid.

As has been shown by people not wanting it built near the WTC ruins, it has a connection to 9/11. Who knows, maybe the people that decided the opening day thought they could try to turn the Muslim-WTC connection into something vaguely good.


They have an awful sense of 'good.' Opening on this day is nearly asking for a tragedy of their own, even more reason to not open it there and then.

I'd think that would be irrelevant to ask considering this is not the only mosque that will cost money - a lot of money.


It's very relevant. I'd like to know if it's coming from the Taliban or honest supporters within the Muslim faith.

Maybe they do want to honour those that died, or maybe they just want the attention, attention would be good to get worshippers, or maybe they didn't think this whole thing through and can't admit a mistake.
Also, its not the only place Muslims worship that was a target during 9/11, its not the closest either, why is proximity such an issue now?


They've built mosques within two blocks of the WTC? I was not aware.

It's a vital issue. I'm not going to stop them, but I'm saying that building it right there, of all places, is a fairly bad idea.

That, I really don't know.


I will await until someone does.

For this one, I heard it was more of a recreation center than a Masque, with a basketball hoop etc.


But for who? I'm sure there are other places that would love this building for such a purpose. The financial district is an odd place to put one.

------------------------

I have a better idea for trying to signify peace: How about a memorial? You know, a place that they pay for that shows that they condemn the actions of not only the terrorists of 9/11, but all terrorists around the world, Islamic or otherwise.

Building a Muslim only place of worship is not the greatest way of saying sorry or signifying peace. It's like Hitler building a white only palace for saying sorry to killing the Jews. Severity? Not quite. Symbolism? Identical.
TheTerminator
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TheTerminator
174 posts
Nomad

Who is going to this mosque? It's in the financial district, a place where residence of people period is fairly low, let alone Muslims. So why a 13 story mosque that people will have to commute 30-45 minutes to attend?

Muslims are going to this mosque.
Why is it purposely being set to open on the anniversary?

Because that's the day the builders decided it was ready to be open.
Non-holidays are not important during any type of construction.
Who is going to fit the $100m bill?

Rich Muslims. Duh. Have you ever seen Dubai?
Why this location? There are plenty of others, as well as plenty of other mosques. They can easily build it where attendance will be much higher, and controversy far lower.

Because they own this one.
Why so close? It has no reason to be so close.

They own the property.
Why so big? How are they going to fill this massive complex?

It's big because they can afford it. And that's the way the architect designed it. How are they going to fill it? With people I assume. Furniture. Paint. Wallpaper. TV's. Computers. Maybe an arcade.
Caucheka
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Caucheka
440 posts
Nomad

to all those who oppose

Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,504 posts
Jester

^ READ

[quote=Article]if we ask our leaders to start dishonoring the freedoms that make this country great, the terrorists surely will have won. And I donât want to see that. Because unlike those with power and influence who would lie to you, I love America.[/quote]

Powerful words, yet sincere all the more.

rafterman
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rafterman
600 posts
Nomad

If it will fail, why build it? This is not something that will succeed, and is inviting violence. Building it, with such a low chance of attendance, and high chance of violence, is just stupid.

Religion can drive people to do things improbable to succeed.

They have an awful sense of 'good.' Opening on this day is nearly asking for a tragedy of their own, even more reason to not open it there and then.

Perhaps they are trying to show some support for victims, good intentions that might not work out right.

It's very relevant. I'd like to know if it's coming from the Taliban or honest supporters within the Muslim faith.

Touché, I did not think about it that way, but like was said in this thread earlier, the terrorists want to destroy American values(or something like that), including freedom of religion, unless they are spending 100 million dollars to prove freedom of religion is not entirely free, I don't see the Taliban paying for it.

They've built mosques within two blocks of the WTC? I was not aware.

No but Muslims worship in the pentagon, 80 feet away from where it was hit.

It's a vital issue. I'm not going to stop them, but I'm saying that building it right there, of all places, is a fairly bad idea.

Would the Muslims who support the mosque be the original aggressors? Not including the construction of the mosque as being an aggressive move, so to speak.
Then why should their freedoms be limited instead of those who would, say violently attack the mosque?

But for who? I'm sure there are other places that would love this building for such a purpose. The financial district is an odd place to put one.

Depends if they would let anyone use their facilities, granted it is not the best location.

I have a better idea for trying to signify peace: How about a memorial? You know, a place that they pay for that shows that they condemn the actions of not only the terrorists of 9/11, but all terrorists around the world, Islamic or otherwise.

Best things don't always happen, but I do agree.

Building a Muslim only place of worship is not the greatest way of saying sorry or signifying peace. It's like Hitler building a white only palace for saying sorry to killing the Jews. Severity? Not quite. Symbolism? Identical.

More like the Germans building a Beer garden in Poland without any workers/signs/ect written in polish, just German.
TheTerminator
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TheTerminator
174 posts
Nomad

The terrorists bombed the world trade center as statement that declares against our country, and the number of freedoms that the citizens of the United States enjoy everyday. By building a place of worship so close to the area in which an extremist group of the same faith committed a horrible act of terrorism shows that we still stand by the same principles upon which our nation was founded upon. It shows that we are tolerant and that we show diversity as one of our strengths. What we are doing right now is what those terrorists that day wanted to happen: To create even more chaos and disorganization among the ranks of our people, and to weaken our morals, so that we see one another as rivals, instead of having camaraderie and trust in one another. If we shall let this happen, then the terrorists shall triumph. If we can't let our own people practice the faith of their choosing, what statement are we making? Building this Mosque isn't a symbol of dwelling in our past, even though it was a most horrible past, but it is a symbol of the here and now, and the future of our country. It is showing how we can break down the walls of racism and prejudices, and wave away stereotyping and false facts and opinions. Breaking boundaries, and joining together as one people, so that we can create a world that is better for our children. We should not see the building of this Mosque as a loss, but instead, as a gain for the greater good of all people. If we cannot do this, then the terrorists have triumphed in their attempts on the day of September 11, 2001, but if we can, then we are showing how strong we truly are, separately diverse, but joined together as one.

aknerd
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aknerd
1,416 posts
Peasant

Normally I would never reference "fake news" for so serious a matter, but Jon Stewart has actually done an amazing job of covering this. Well, an amazing job of covering other news channel's coverage.

"Tragedy has been and will always be with us. Somewhere right now, evil people are planning evil things. All of us will do everything meaningful- everything we can do- to prevent it. But each horrible act can't become an axe for opportunists to cleave the very Bill of Rights that binds us"
-Charlton Heston

Watch the vid for context.

Distoobed
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Distoobed
47 posts
Nomad

Building a Muslim only place of worship is not the greatest way of saying sorry or signifying peace. It's like Hitler building a white only palace for saying sorry to killing the Jews. Severity? Not quite. Symbolism? Identical.


Wow, i just lost all respect for your opinion. The symbolism isn't identical beeeeecause Hitler tried to exterminate the Jewish culture(and it's people, obviously)maybe similar to what the terrorists wanted but the Muslims building the mosque aren't the same as those who attacked the WTC, so yeah theres that MINOR difference. Again, a few bad apples act, and everyone is blaming the whole group of people, of course it doesn't help that Christianity and Islam have never really seen eye to eye, without war, but in these modern times terrorists acted, not the general muslim people. Guess they are both the same in your eyes, eh?
Caucheka
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Caucheka
440 posts
Nomad

quote from the article i posted


A mosque by definition is a purely religious structure. This is a large proposed community center, open to the public and set to house, among other things, a basketball court. Yes there will be a prayer space inside it as well, but you donât call St. Maryâs Hospital a church because it happens to have a chapel inside it, do you?

benman113
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benman113
329 posts
Peasant

Sorry, but with people who are still seeking to wipe you from the Earth, that makes no sense. 1%, lets say, are extremists. That's a lot of people. Just so you know. Around 15 million.

And that could be more if we keep a person of a faith from praticing their reglion then they might turn to extremism
Building a Muslim only place of worship is not the greatest way of saying sorry or signifying peace. It's like Hitler building a white only palace for saying sorry to killing the Jews. Severity? Not quite. Symbolism? Identical.

No hilter said sorry to the jews when he killed himself.
I also said that they are not saying sorry we would just be forgiving.
Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,504 posts
Jester

Sorry, but with people who are still seeking to wipe you from the Earth, that makes no sense. 1%, lets say, are extremists. That's a lot of people. Just so you know. Around 15 million.


One percent doesn't fly dude, sorry. It's more like .001%. A couple hundred people, if that. If we had 15 million extremists, it would be a second crusade. That's too horrible to think about.
Hypermnestra
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Hypermnestra
26,390 posts
Nomad

They should not build one that is soooo disrespectful its like building the Nazi party headquarters at Aushwitz.

It's their right to build it. Plus, that's kind of ignorant. There's a difference between Nazis at Auschwitz(you misspelled it) and Muslims at Ground Zero. First of all, it's not even really a mosque. It's a community center with a religious thing in it. Second of all, it's not on ground zero, it's a few blocks away. Third of all, it's ridiculous that we're arguing about it, because the Muslims who are going to attend this community center(and not just Muslims) had all of nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks, it's just racism and stereotyping doing the work here. It's less like Nazis building their HQ at Auschwitz, and more like Germans building a restaraunt where Neo-Nazis sometimes hang out, a few miles away.

I think its the stupidest idea ever. Your constructing a building full of worshipers that killed over 2000 inoccent men and women all because we arnt Muslim. It got me even more upset that the stupid President supports the plan. We have the weakest President ever that will kiss up to anyone just so nothing bad will happen....Yea thats what i think and idc if you disagree.

The people who are building the community center a few blocks away had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. What part of this is so difficult to grasp? And I applaud President Obama for supporting the plan. By doing so, he opened himself up for all the flak that's come his way for supportiing the community center(not mosque) and it's because it's the Muslims' right to build it there. If we should suppress them, then the irony and hypocrisy of America would be taken to whole new levels. We spout about "freedom" and "liberty" in the very songs about 9/11 but when it actually comes down to it, when 9/11 is involved, we toss all our "freedom of religion" right out the window. And it was the extremist Muslims who did it, not the normal Muslims! That's like not letting the Catholic church build anything in all of Europe because of the Crusades. It's ridiculous, is what it is.


This isn't a matter of politics its a matter of decency. If the Muslims really want to prove they are a religion of peace they will move it elsewhere. I agree that politically they have the right to. Politically Bush had the right to start war with Iraqi terrorists but you people have a problem with that. Food for thought.

But...why? They have made it clear that their intentions for building the community center(I cannot stress this enough, it's not a mosque, for crying out loud) is to make it a tribute to 9/11 for the Americans! They're saying, "hey, we like you guys and we want you to know that we had nothing to do with the attacks". Is it a good idea? No. Should it happen? Yes. The only reason it's a bad idea is because of people like you, who think like that, anyway.
Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

I cannot stress this enough, it's not a mosque, for crying out loud


You seem really attached to the notion that this is simply a community center and not a mosque. In fact, earlier you say:
"It's a community center with a religious thing in it."

I made this argument earlier, so I won't dwell. But we need to assess and deal with the actual situation, and not misleading euphemisms. My analogy before when arguing this point was a mega-church (which are fairly common where I live) that has additional facilities. There are several Baptist churches where I live that have a full rec center, spa, pool, game room, etc. The fact these churches have facilities in addition to where services are held doesn't mean they're no longer churches.
This is not just a community center. It's an Islamic community center. It's a place for members of the Islamic faith to share in fellowship and worship.

I'm not saying this should or shouldn't be built. But if we're going to talk about it, we need to use words and phrases that accurately relate the situation. Let's take the debate to the actual issue rather than taking it a step back.
Hypermnestra
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Hypermnestra
26,390 posts
Nomad

I stand corrected. I did not mean to say that the community center was not religious, however the people saying that it's a mosque just kind of bothers me. It is still a religious place, but it's not strictly Islamic. Yes, Muslims are at the heart of it, and yes, Muslims are going to be there, but that does not make it strictly Islamic, therefore I do not think it is a mosque.

Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

That makes sense. I see now why you are leaning away from calling it a mosque.
On an unrelated note, the lady who wrote the article you linked to - her name is Nancy Fuchs Kreimer. I'm not sure how to pronounce her middle name, but it's awfully funny to try anyway

But I feel like downplaying the mosquiness (yeah, I just made that word up) of the community center is playing into the hands of those bigots opposed to it. It shouldn't matter if it's a mosque or church or atheist house of pancakes. We are supposed to be a country of religious freedom and tolerance. If we downplay the religious side of this, though, we kind of lose that whole first amendment argument.

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