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holt24
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holt24
1,133 posts
Nomad

This is not about whether or not he was the son of God but whether he actually existed.Most atheists agree that he did live but there are some who don't so what are you're thoughts?

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slimmyfeet
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slimmyfeet
59 posts
Nomad

How so? Can you show this to be true? In what manner would one find him then, or know that what they are seeing/feeling isn't some other deity playing trickster?
perfect example: feelings. Science states that feelings are caused by electrical impulses within neurons that produces emotions. If that were true, then why can't man create A.I. to a full extent? With all of our technology youd think that electrical impulses would be simple to recreate.
I always find arguments like this interesting. You see, the Bible teaches us that without a belief in Jesus that we will go to hell and suffer a fate worse than death. It also teaches that God loves us all and doesn't wish for anyone to be punished. Yet he is also omniscient and knows each of our hearts. So why, then, would a loving God intentionally do exactly what he knows will cause one to turn from him and be forced to suffer hell? That isn't the mark of a loving deity, that's the mark of an egomaniacal and sadistic tyrant.
Man puts what he wants to when he writes a book. In order to get a point across and to make you believe, what better resource is there than to use fear? King James proved this when he rewrote specific parts in the bible to fit his liking. If anything in the bible is false, then its mans fault for making it false. Also, im gonna pull an atheist move and ask Do you have proof that everyone who denounced there faith actually went to hell and suffered? All im saying is that you should just live a good life and be remorseful about your wrongdoings. Dont just shrug them off like they never happened. Remember: the past is forever.
Eh, probably because that is what is said. Furthermore, there is nothing in scripture which gives us any reason to think this story is intended metaphorically. You are simply using logic and education to understand that this story is preposterous so you are attempting to justify it so that it fits with logic, yet doesn't displace your faith.
there is nothing in a math book that suggests that its telling the truth. I would like to state that a lot of theorems that scientist come up with are proving the bible. Edward Zganjar has proved that humans are made of stardust. Notice a correlation? "then the Lord God formd the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living creature" Genesis 2:7. As for science proving bible stories, here is a website that you should take a gander at.[url=http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/]
Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,504 posts
Jester

If that were true, then why can't man create A.I. to a full extent? With all of our technology youd think that electrical impulses would be simple to recreate.


Ermm... no. A.I. = artificial intelligence, as in they are able to think for themselves without a biological brain. They still have to be programmed. Oh yeah, that would be cool though--integrating TERABYTES of information-gathering skills into one machine and have them learn more.

Oh, and feelings are from the mind. Psychological. They may be neural stimuli, but this isn't integrated from God. It's made from the brain. The CNS transmitting info to the PNS.

Do you have proof that everyone who denounced there faith actually went to hell and suffered?


And what about going to Heaven and prospering?

http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/


Nice source by the way. It's *perfectly* objective.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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Shepherd

perfect example: feelings. Science states that feelings are caused by electrical impulses within neurons that produces emotions. If that were true, then why can't man create A.I. to a full extent? With all of our technology youd think that electrical impulses would be simple to recreate.


Actually our feelings are just about the most inaccurate tools we have. So if your 'roof' is a feeling, you might as well say aliens came to you at night and programmed your **** probe with the knowledge. It would probably be about as likely a story.

And creating those 'electrical impulses' is not at all difficult. It's creating a system which responds to them in the manner that our brains do, as the response is created by a chemical reaction within an organism, not pure electric impulses.

Man puts what he wants to when he writes a book. In order to get a point across and to make you believe, what better resource is there than to use fear?


Keep that in mind when you are touting the Bible as a factual document.

Do you have proof that everyone who denounced there faith actually went to hell and suffered?


Nope, most likely because hell is highly improbable, and an afterlife of any sort is even more unlikely. Which is why I am completely unconcerned about what will happen to me after I die.

All im saying is that you should just live a good life and be remorseful about your wrongdoings. Dont just shrug them off like they never happened. Remember: the past is forever.


I fully agree with you. And I would contend that the atheist is more resistant to temptations of sin, and is more remorseful of his wrong doings. You see, when we go against our morals we have to make reparations, we have to rectify our actions, and we have to do it on our own.

Most religious folks have these wonderful superstitions that all they have to do is have some inner monologue, ostentatiously under the guise of telepathically communicating with some divine being, and all wrong doing is forgiven. My, wouldn't that just be lovely if it were true?

I would contend that the price of our mistakes is what deters us, and when our religion gives us an 'easy out' it lessens that price, and subsequently our mistakes are less of a deterrent.

I would like to state that a lot of theorems that scientist come up with are proving the bible. Edward Zganjar has proved that humans are made of stardust. Notice a correlation? "then the Lord God formd the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living creature" Genesis 2:7


Umm.. stardust is not dust, sorry. Technically speaking, the 'stardust' of which we are made are simply individual elementary particles which can only be created through the fission in the heart of a star, and are only released when that star goes supernova.

To quote Lawrence Krauss "Every molecule in your body came from a star, and the molecules in your left hand probably came from a different star than the molecules in your right. ... Forget Jesus, the STARS died so that you could be here today".
slimmyfeet
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slimmyfeet
59 posts
Nomad

Ermm... no. A.I. = artificial intelligence, as in they are able to think for themselves without a biological brain. They still have to be programmed. Oh yeah, that would be cool though--integrating TERABYTES of information-gathering skills into one machine and have them learn more.

Oh, and feelings are from the mind. Psychological. They may be neural stimuli, but this isn't integrated from God. It's made from the brain. The CNS transmitting info to the PNS.
Yeeaah about that, scientists dont know everything about the brain. Why do we do something odd for no reason and discovering later that it prevented a disaster? Coincedence maybe but that word is used so much to explain seemingly random events. And yeah our brains do transfer chemicals to react other parts of the brain. Why wouldnt they? Thats just the physical part. And adding terabytes of information is that hard. In fact my friend just installed a terabyte of cpu memory into his computer, no prob. With all of the tests that have been performed to study human psychology youd think that they could be condensed into a computer to create A.I.
And what about going to Heaven and prospering?
Where do you think the energy from dead bodies go? Im pretty sure that i learned that energy wasnt destroyed. Also, i had a dream about my grandpa once, and i could tell that it was him just from the sheer feeling. If he hasnt been to heaven then limbo must be a pretty nice place. I know that dreams arent really logical in the aspect of truth, but weve all had those dreams where we see a dead one arriving after months of not thinking about them. Subconscious thought? maybe, but not necessarily.
Nice source by the way. It's *perfectly* objective.
Asherlee said i had to get a source even though what ive been saying has been coming from my head or knowledge ive picked up over the years. I didnt look it over, i just chose a random source that looked legit and copied and pasted it onto here.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/


I'd actually like to point out that the ONLY things proven by this site is that the authors of the books in the Bible did indeed live in the approximate times we believe, and that they actually knew of events which they should have known about anyway. You've proven that men wrote the bible. Furthermore, I have yet to see evidence to anything which is unique to the Bible as a historical book which shows anything which even remotely suggests a divine being interacting with humanity in any way.

The site you linked to makes several claims, none of which (even if true) would be proof of anything other than the accuracy of the authors in describing non-supernatural events in their region at their time. All they have shown is that there is evidence that some of the kings mentioned in the bible may have been real. How does that prove anything?

If I write a book that says George W. Bush is real, and then claim a bunch of stuff about the supernatural, and 3000 years from now people prove George W Bush WAS real, how does that prove the rest of my story? All it shows is that I know something which I should have known had I lived at the time and place I claimed.
Cinna
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Cinna
753 posts
Nomad

I'm a little unsure


I thought being a moderator made your statements automatically true..?

By the way, Slimmy here is vastly impressing me.
slimmyfeet
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slimmyfeet
59 posts
Nomad

Hey i just wanted to thank you guys for this discussion. Im very intelligent and idealistic for my age and i really have no one to talk to about my reasoning in my age group. I actually prayed to god that i wanted a decent discussion about things like this and whaddya know, armor games has religious threads! (I seriously didnt see it on the community page before today) Coincidence? Maybe to you guys, but to me, its just another gift from god

MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Where do you think the energy from dead bodies go? Im pretty sure that i learned that energy wasnt destroyed.


You are correct, it is not destroyed. It is contained in the nutrients in your body which nourish the creatures that feed on your flesh, as well as drive the decomposition of the body. The chemical decomposition of flesh is a physical reaction, and as such requires energy. If all of your energy left your body at death then there would be no energy left to drive this reaction, or provide sustenance to the flora and fauna which feast upon your corpse.
Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,504 posts
Jester

With all of the tests that have been performed to study human psychology youd think that they could be condensed into a computer to create A.I.


Like I said. Programming. They have to program into a robot the very way a human brain integrates. Not very hard. Inserting a terabyte of info into a cpu is NOT the same thing as programming a terabyte of info.

Where do you think the energy from dead bodies go? Im pretty sure that i learned that energy wasnt destroyed.


Our energy from the bodies don't get destroyed. They biodegrade into the ground like what organic material is supposed to do. It is not 'destroyed'.

Also, i had a dream about my grandpa once, and i could tell that it was him just from the sheer feeling. If he hasnt been to heaven then limbo must be a pretty nice place. I know that dreams arent really logical in the aspect of truth, but weve all had those dreams where we see a dead one arriving after months of not thinking about them. Subconscious thought? maybe, but not necessarily.


I also had a dream about my friend that died in the car crash. Yeah, our minds can do some pretty nasty stuff. I can dream that he went to heaven, went to hell, oh, and drinking with God in a tavern. I also dreamed that God said "don't listen to some of my followers--they don't know what they are talking about".

Hey i just wanted to thank you guys for this discussion. Im very intelligent and idealistic for my age and i really have no one to talk to about my reasoning in my age group. I actually prayed to god that i wanted a decent discussion about things like this and whaddya know, armor games has religious threads! (I seriously didnt see it on the community page before today) Coincidence? Maybe to you guys, but to me, its just another gift from god


I also prayed to God that I wanted more info for my argument paper on the psychological aspects of what religion does to people. I got plenty of info. I certainly don't think it's coincidence, maybe to you, but not to me. I also prayed to God to give me a sign of what religion really is. He said, "look deep inside a brain and deep inside a wallet".
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

and there is scientific evidence that a lot of the stories couldve happened.


You might have missed it in my wall o' text so I will restate it.

Show me, and I reserve the option to laugh at you if you present a Christian apologetic or other similar site.

Why do we do something odd for no reason and discovering later that it prevented a disaster?


Why do we do seemingly random things and later nothing happened? You just picking and choosing here.

With all of the tests that have been performed to study human psychology youd think that they could be condensed into a computer to create A.I.


Computers don't operate the way the human brain does.

Where do you think the energy from dead bodies go?


Same place any other form of energy goes once it's spent.

http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/


As stated HaHaHaHaHa roflmao!

Hey i just wanted to thank you guys for this discussion. Im very intelligent and idealistic for my age and i really have no one to talk to about my reasoning in my age group.


Glad your enjoying yourself.

I actually prayed to god that i wanted a decent discussion about things like this and whaddya know, armor games has religious threads! (I seriously didnt see it on the community page before today) Coincidence?


Yep, or your thinking about it made you unconsciously more aware of it's existence.

Maybe to you guys, but to me, its just another gift from god


Why yes I am, no really translated down my real name means gift from god.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Why yes I am, no really translated down my real name means gift from god.


Hey! Me too!! How interesting that we would both be named such, and both be such outspoken opponents of the dogma surrounding his worship.
slimmyfeet
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slimmyfeet
59 posts
Nomad

"don't listen to some of my followers--they don't know what they are talking about".
but i didnt go get drunk with god in the tavern. I know what im saying and you know that what im saying makes a whole lotta sense.
I also had a dream about my friend that died in the car crash.
Dreaming in sleep and dreaming as in goals or hopes are two completely different things. I can make it my goal to eat a pizza but it wont necessarily appear in my dreams while im sleeping.
Our energy from the bodies don't get destroyed. They biodegrade into the ground like what organic material is supposed to do. It is not 'destroyed'.
there were many tests regarding that our body is actually lighter after we die. where does that energy go? also id like to point out that i was watching larry king live one night and a scientist that they were interviewing confessed that scientists dont have a formula for death. Is it again just another coincidence?
Like I said. Programming. They have to program into a robot the very way a human brain integrates. Not very hard. Inserting a terabyte of info into a cpu is NOT the same thing as programming a terabyte of info.
Yes, but you'd think that after the many years of research, scientist by now would have at least made some progress. Again i must state that the brain isnt just a bunch of electrical impulses and chemical reactions. thats just a synopsis of how the brain works. Theres plenty of research left to do.
Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

Heh, Mage is a gift from God and God is my judge. Anyway, just because you prayed for something mundane and it happens doesn't mean it was God doing it, I once said that I'd sell my soul to Satan if school was cancelled the next day - it was cancelled the next day and I honestly can't feel the difference. I certainly didn't get 23 grams lighter...

MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

there were many tests regarding that our body is actually lighter after we die. where does that energy go?


Actually that's been debunked numerous times already. It was based on a late 18th century experiment which is not regarded as scientifically relevant in any manner.

also id like to point out that i was watching larry king live one night and a scientist that they were interviewing confessed that scientists dont have a formula for death. Is it again just another coincidence?


A formula for death? Really? We need a formula for that? Furthermore I'd like to point out that there are probably an infinite number of things that we don't have proven formulas for. That has no bearing on this discussion though.
slimmyfeet
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slimmyfeet
59 posts
Nomad

Show me, and I reserve the option to laugh at you if you present a Christian apologetic or other similar site.
watch the history channel when they are explaining some of the stories. You might learn something. I cant really cite that so dont nag me about it.
Why do we do seemingly random things and later nothing happened? You just picking and choosing here.
obviously you didnt get the message. Not everything has to do with some bigger scheme in the long run. But you know as well as i do that those special instances arent fake and didnt happen by coincidence; its something we humans call intuition.
Computers don't operate the way the human brain does.
according to scientists, it does.
Same place any other form of energy goes once it's spent.
Can you explain? all of you guys make statements with no links to anything yet you nag me about citing a page. Just another typical atheist contradiction.
Yep, or your thinking about it made you unconsciously more aware of it's existence.
really dont accuse me of saying "unlogical statements" when all of you sit here insulting me. Science may teach a lot of things, but unlike religion, it doesnt teach manners
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