This is not about whether or not he was the son of God but whether he actually existed.Most atheists agree that he did live but there are some who don't so what are you're thoughts?
I am a Christian, but I do have many friends of alternate religeons, Sikh, Jewish, Budhhist etc. and I find all of them quite interesting, and one bit of information in particular is that most religeons do believe that Jesus Christ did in fact exist. The debate is more along the lines of who was he, just a good man that preached, or the son of God?
Technically by religious doctrine, dogma, etc, we aren't supposed to have the mental capacity to understand how "YAHWEH" spontaneously became everything. Is that the explanation for how the big bang spontaneously became everything?
Technically by religious doctrine, dogma, etc, we aren't supposed to have the mental capacity to understand how "YAHWEH" spontaneously became everything. Is that the explanation for how the big bang spontaneously became everything?
So the religious answer is don't look behind the curtain? No this is not the explanation given for the big bang, we simply don't know yet. This does not mean we should automatically insert "God did it" though and there are plenty of hypothesis on how it happened.
If you simply don't know yet, would you consider that an appropriate response from christians concerning omnipotence?
Being everywhere would be omnipresence. Sure I would accept an "I don't know" about God. Though we are talking about a belief system claiming to already have all the answers or at the very least be able to ask the being who does.
Meh I was kind of going for an 'every-whatever' word.
Sure I would accept an "I don't know" about God.
Oh... well... okay then.
Though we are talking about a belief system claiming to already have all the answers or at the very least be able to ask the being who does.
I guess the best way to respond to that is: christians don't necessarily know everything about anything, we just believe that the God we worship does. A frustrating aspect of religion, however, is that God doesn't always make himself perfectly clear.
What I learn is that because of original sin, of course there is the separation that is Heaven and Hell. In order for God to play out who goes where, he leaves a certain amount of his religion up to faith, in order to find who is, for lack of a better word, 'worthy'.
What I learn is that because of original sin, of course there is the separation that is Heaven and Hell. In order for God to play out who goes where, he leaves a certain amount of his religion up to faith, in order to find who is, for lack of a better word, 'worthy'.
Certain amounts? Far as I can tell the whole thing hinges on it. Original sin is unjust, condemning those for something another person did. Hell is also unjust and cruel condemning someone to an eternity of punishment for a finite crime. The requirement of this in order to find out who goes where puts into question the extent of God's power, this is suppose to be an all knowing being after all. Even if all of this was the case. Why would such a being just want those would would blindly follow along, rather than those who actually think for themselves and reserve decisions based not on faith but on facts?
Hell is also unjust and cruel condemning someone to an eternity of punishment for a finite crime. The requirement of this in order to find out who goes where puts into question the extent of God's power, this is suppose to be an all knowing being after all.
depends on how we define the criteria by which we possibly get judged... and what hell and heaven actually are (granted they exist)
maybe it is similar to Marlowe's Faustus and being in heaven merely equates to being in God's presence. while hell is merely the absence of God. its not that you've committed a crime against god of finite proportions and are being condemned. it may be that you have a finite time on this earth to earn the right to go to an infinite paradise. maybe its just rewards being given out to the "worthy" and if you don't earn a reward then u don't earn a reward... i mean u could argue that not earning a reward is the same as condemning but i say its slightly different.
in that regard it may be "You get a rewards" "you get a reward" "you get a reward"... "you didn't earn a reward" "you get a reward"
as opposed to.... You get eternal paradise... You do too... I condemn you to an eternity of pain and torment BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
i mean its slightly different
as for the thinking vs blind faith... i don't know... i don't know if we're truly going to be judged or how we're judged. I would think that those that truly believe in God and acted as such...regardless of whether they had blind faith or they rationalized it with whatever logic they had.
but i can only speculate.... because i don't know
also goes for the perks and detriments of heaven and hell.... i don't know
maybe it is similar to Marlowe's Faustus and being in heaven merely equates to being in God's presence. while hell is merely the absence of God. its not that you've committed a crime against god of finite proportions and are being condemned. it may be that you have a finite time on this earth to earn the right to go to an infinite paradise. maybe its just rewards being given out to the "worthy" and if you don't earn a reward then u don't earn a reward... i mean u could argue that not earning a reward is the same as condemning but i say its slightly different.
Wouldn't that go against his alleged omnipresence?
And the rest of it sounds kind of like you are a deist...
forgive my mistake..... i didn't mean absence of God... i meant hell is being separated from God. I can't really explain that concept... i can direct you to Dante's Divine Comedy... The Inferno. (Marlowe's Faustus explains it too). Dante explains it somewhat when talking about the final level of hell that holds satan.
tis a quote by the story's fallen angel Mephistophilis (Mephistopheles) Faustus asks Mephistophilis how he is out of Hell, to which Mephistophilis replies: "Why this is hell, nor am I out of it. Think'st thou that I, who saw the face of God, And tasted the eternal joys of heaven, Am not tormented with ten thousand hells In being deprived of everlasting bliss?"
maybe he just lost his right to his reward
maybe its similar to the concept of a fountain... a fountain of glory and bliss that you are only allowed to draw from if you have earned it as a reward... if not you can't... or if you lose your right then you can no longer... the fountain is still there... u just can't benefit from it. the omnipresent fountain is always there.. ur left without rights to it (redundant i kno...)
And the rest of it sounds kind of like you are a deist...
what are you saying here? were you assuming I was atheist? or are you assuming I am not? clarify please
forgive my mistake..... i didn't mean absence of God... i meant hell is being separated from God.
Pretty much saying the same thing here. To be separated from something would require it's absence. Saying your separated from something omnipresent would be like saying your separated from your arm while it's still attached.
maybe its similar to the concept of a fountain... a fountain of glory and bliss that you are only allowed to draw from if you have earned it as a reward... if not you can't... or if you lose your right then you can no longer... the fountain is still there... u just can't benefit from it. the omnipresent fountain is always there.. ur left without rights to it (redundant i kno...)
I still don't see why there would be a requirement of faith or even a test of any sort to begin with. The only reason for it would be for God to determine who goes where. But God being an omniscient being would already know this, thus making any sort of test moot.
what are you saying here? were you assuming I was atheist? or are you assuming I am not? clarify please
But God being an omniscient being would already know this
To me that sums up the fallacy of almost every religious meaning. If god had a plan, knows all and everything is pre-conceived, then its a pretty bad plan to let things pan out as they are and if there really IS a god, IT is not nice or forgiving and sounds like one of the Chaos gods from the tabletop games from Games Workshop. It requests favour and deals out death and boon regardless of creed or religion or need or deserving.
Well done Mage... I couldn't keep to reason and calm the way you and a good few others do on here.
