Forums → WEPR → [Necro] Does God exist?
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since there really s no topic on whether or not he really exists and created people i decided to make one
start debating... NOW!
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Hey - if you can find and demonstrate proof that a God exists, remove all extraneous variables, find out whose God it is, get it to appear before us and prove it's omnipotence and get it to communicate with us and tell us exactly what it wants from us - then I'd be quite happy to have it 'stuck to' me.
can someone give me a definitive answer as to the definition of atheism?
Philosophers of religion can't even seem to come up with uncontentious definitions for ordinary concepts like religion, God, etc.
A standardly accepted definition of atheism, though, is the belief that there is no God.
You must assent to this proposition to be an atheist. In other words, you must believe it the case that no God exists.
But then we get into trouble with what constitutes a belief, if the atheist doctrine has only 1 form, and how we define God. This is where all the confusion comes in.
But more to the point of why you were asking that. Babies and those who haven't even considered the proposition aren't atheists. They're not theists either. They can't be classified based on their belief in the existence of a god. It would be like trying to classify bowling balls based on the number of trees growing off of them. It just isn't doable.
But odds are, if you come up with a definition of a god that involves any sort of consciousness, the atheist will reject this. If the entity you're positing doesn't have a consciousness, though, there's a worry it may not really even be a god at all (at least, in the sense most of us are talking about).
no one is right and no one is wrong this is all opinions and its back to the
christians vs athesists thread
No, not even close. God either is or he isn't a deity either is or it isn't there is no room for subjectivity and opinions
Actually, no facts have been proven on whether God exists or doesn't, so this truly is a matter of opinion.
i motion that we all find proof of God existing, and then "stick it" to the atheists
I've noticed this trend of referring to people as "the atheists" and speaking of them in a derogatory manner, mainly from people who claim to be christians. That's actually not very Christ-like, so I'm confused. Do you actually follow the teachings of Jesus Christ? Because disliking/shunning a group of people because of their beliefs certainly isn't a teaching in the New Testament.
if you can find and demonstrate proof that a God exists, remove all extraneous variables, find out whose God it is, get it to appear before us and prove it's omnipotence and get it to communicate with us and tell us exactly what it wants from us - then I'd be quite happy to have it 'stuck to' me.
That would be impossible! But so would disproving that a God exists. When it comes to the existence of a God, science and Religion are both theories that have been yet to be proven.
What if there was a person who lived on an "Earth" who's civilization gathered enough technology to utilize all of the energy of their earth? What if they then took that knowledge and created the technology needed to harness energy to actually create new planets? Evolution is real, but it's very possible that there was a hand in it.
Closing your eyes to other possibilities of how we came into existence is pretty backwards, whether you believe in God, evolution, or both.
PS- Darwin was Christian until the day he died.
A standardly accepted definition of atheism, though, is the belief that there is no God.
Not necessarily a belief.
Babies and those who haven't even considered the proposition aren't atheists. They're not theists either. They can't be classified based on their belief in the existence of a god.
Again...
a-; without, not
theist belief in a deity/
atheist; WITHOUT BELIEF in a deity/s
so yes babies are atheists because they are without a belief in a deity.
It would be like trying to classify bowling balls based on the number of trees growing off of them. It just isn't doable.
A better analogy would be like calling not collecting stamps a hobby.
Actually, no facts have been proven on whether God exists or doesn't, so this truly is a matter of opinion.
You can't prove a negative, so we will only find evidence for the existence of a god. If non exists there will be no evidence to find. So such a being either does or does not exist, that isn't opinion that's fact.
Because disliking/shunning a group of people because of their beliefs certainly isn't a teaching in the New Testament.
Your right Jesus did many times say you are to love.
When it comes to the existence of a God, science and Religion are both theories that have been yet to be proven.
Umm no, neither of those are theories. I'm not sure if religion is as well but science is a branch of philosophy.
Evolution is real, but it's very possible that there was a hand in it.
Sure it's possible, but when was it necessary? This hand evolution could have gotten would have amounted to someone opening an automatic door for another person.
Closing your eyes to other possibilities of how we came into existence is pretty backwards, whether you believe in God, evolution, or both.
I agree, but how do we go about accurately determining what's real and what's not?
PS- Darwin was Christian until the day he died.
Yep, so?
so yes babies are atheists because they are without a belief in a deity.
That logic doesn't add up, because Atheism IS a belief that God does not exist, AND involves the belief of the Evolution theory. There are more categories than Atheist to to properly label groups who don't actively believe in a God. For example, an Agnostic doesn't believe in "God" but believes in the possibility of a supreme being.
Babies, the mentally handicapped, basically those who do not have the capability of understanding their existence or making complicated choices would be in the category of "those without any stance." I think that makes a lot more sense.
When it comes to the existence of a God, science and Religion are both theories that have been yet to be proven.
You can't prove a negative, so we will only find evidence for the existence of a god. If non exists there will be no evidence to find. So such a being either does or does not exist, that isn't opinion that's fact.
I see what you're saying, but until you can prove/disprove the existence of a God it will merely be a theory, a conclusion based on partial information... an opinion.
When it comes to the existence of a God, science and Religion are both theories that have been yet to be proven.
Umm no, neither of those are theories. I'm not sure if religion is as well but science is a branch of philosophy.
Sorry, I meant that the existence or lack there of God is a theory that has yet to be proven. existence=religion non-existence=science
Sure it's possible, but when was it necessary? This hand evolution could have gotten would have amounted to someone opening an automatic door for another person.
It very well could have been necessary, and until we can prove that it truly isn't, we won't know.
The big bang theory has no explanation on how or why all matter needed to make a potentially livable planet happened to come into contact with each other in the correct time frame. It doesn't seem like this is something that commonly happens in our part of the galaxy, or the ones surrounding us, so if there's no explanation then it would be strange to not keep an open mind about that.
A saying I've heard more than once is
"if you were to apply the big bang theory to an encyclopedia, which is much less complicated than the earth, it would be like taking all of the materials to make that book, throwing them in the air and when it landed the materials collided into a bounded book, the ink evolving into writing and eventually becoming the encyclopedia as we know it."
I think this is a good point, that someone had to begin somewhere with the materials to even make a book, and they had to develop a written language before that. BUT I don't think someone created the earth in 7 days, or that man was molded like play-dough and magically came to life...
Oh, and I think a good analogy for the belief that a God isn't necessary would be the example of plant-life... Man has the ability to put a seed into fertilized ground and grow a plant, but there's plenty of plants that will grow and flourish whether man plants seeds or not.
PS- Darwin was Christian until the day he died.
Yep, so?
SO it's quite possible for Evolution, Christianity and intellect to exist together!
PS- Darwin was Christian until the day he died.
Yep, so?
SO it's quite possible for Evolution, Christianity and intellect to exist together!
My problem with Christians beleiving in evolution is if there is a God then why did he have to use evolution to create everything we see here.If there is a God he could just as easily created the world in 7 days.
That logic doesn't add up, because Atheism IS a belief that God does not exist, AND involves the belief of the Evolution theory.
Atheism is not the belief that God doesn't exist, it is a lack of belief. And it does not involve a belief in evolution, mostly because you don't believe in evolution.
It very well could have been necessary, and until we can prove that it truly isn't, we won't know.
We did prove it wasn't necessary, but you'll have to ask someone else for more info.
That logic doesn't add up, because Atheism IS a belief that God does not exist
I gave you the definition broken down for everyone to read in the post.
Look again
atheist; WITHOUT BELIEF in a deity/s
AND involves the belief of the Evolution theory.
atheism has nothing to do with the theory of evolution. Evolution is a scientific theory, it has nothing to do with belief or lack there of.
For example, an Agnostic doesn't believe in "God" but believes in the possibility of a supreme being.
Wrong, agnosticism deals with the lack of knowledge of spiritual things, or in this regard the spiritual thing being god.
You can be an agnostic or gnostic AND an atheist or theist.
I see what you're saying, but until you can prove/disprove the existence of a God it will merely be a theory, a conclusion based on partial information... an opinion.
God isn't a theory. There is no evidence for God.
Sorry, I meant that the existence or lack there of God is a theory that has yet to be proven. existence=religion non-existence=science
Again God is not a theory, and your explanation of existence and non existence makes even less sense.
It very well could have been necessary, and until we can prove that it truly isn't, we won't know.
At what point did evolution need this hand?
The big bang theory has no explanation on how or why all matter needed to make a potentially livable planet happened to come into contact with each other in the correct time frame.
What? The formation of the planets happened after the big bang not from the big bang.
It doesn't seem like this is something that commonly happens in our part of the galaxy
we really don't know how common or rare it is but with around 250 billion galaxies each with hundreds of thousands of stars even if the odds are extremely low there is still a good chance for millions of planets that could support life.
"if you were to apply the big bang theory to an encyclopedia, which is much less complicated than the earth, it would be like taking all of the materials to make that book, throwing them in the air and when it landed the materials collided into a bounded book, the ink evolving into writing and eventually becoming the encyclopedia as we know it."
This makes no sense when applied to the Big Bang theory.
My problem with Christians beleiving in evolution is if there is a God then why did he have to use evolution to create everything we see here.If there is a God he could just as easily created the world in 7 days.
Because God isn't like Santa Clause. There's no such thing as magic... I'm talking about a logical explanation of why we would have a God, or how someone could have a hand in our creation. Our God could be one of an entire race of highly evolved beings.
Ha, did anyone see that Futurama episode where Dr. Farnsworth dumps microbe robots into a puddle on an empty planet, and becomes God of the thriving civilization that comes from it? Good stuff.
Oh we must have posted at the same time...
I don't have time to copy and paste every quote at the moment, but I think you're a little confused about the big bang theory... or you don't understand what I'm saying. The formation of planets and the big bang theory both have to do with the creation of what is now earth, so I'm a little confused with your responses. And explain the the differences between the encyclopedia theory and the big bang theory to me, because to simply say it makes no sense is extremely vague.
Ahh, gotta go now but I'll answer the rest later, I really like this discussion.
hey mage grey wolf person thingie dude, atheism isn't a religion it is a really uninformed selfish opinion that people made up because theyre tree huggers! i mean christianity is a belief and is the only way to eternal life in heaven. and i know for a fact that a christian cannot believe in God and evolution at the same time because God didn't use evolution to make us in 7 days. he was and is and is to come and he spoke words and it happened, as simple as that... youre thinking that that is cray-cray and it isn't! the bible is the truth and if you believe then the truth will set you free!read genises chapters 1-3 and that should tell you whats up man because christianity has NOTHING TO DO WITH EVOLUTION!!!!!!!!
Our God could be one of an entire race of highly evolved beings.
Nah, God (capital G) in a specific supernatural deity existing in three separate but equal forms. Now you could say that the bible was written by a super advance alien race for various reasons but Christians wouldn't have been worshiping the aliens but God.
yes he does!!!
Care to expound?
sorry there must be a miscommunication here because i do believe that christians worship God and i know that it wasn't written by aliens because i have proof and i know that God is in 3 forms but also in one at the same time ... it's called the trinity (the godhead three in one !)
hey mage grey wolf person thingie dude, atheism isn't a religion it is a really uninformed selfish opinion that people made up because theyre tree huggers!
*head desk*
Selfish? How in the world is it selfish at all? And tree-huggers? Get off the teat of Christian conservatism and learn that not all right wingers are religious and not all left wingers are non-religious.
i mean christianity is a belief and is the only way to eternal life in heaven.
It is a belief and part of that belief is the belief that it's the only way to eternal life.
and i know for a fact that a christian cannot believe in God and evolution at the same time because God didn't use evolution to make us in 7 days.
Well you just rid yourself of around 80% of Christians then didn't you? Congratulation you alone just condemned billions of people to hell.
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