ForumsWEPR[Necro] Does God exist?

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locoace3
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locoace3
15,053 posts
Nomad

since there really s no topic on whether or not he really exists and created people i decided to make one


start debating... NOW!

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MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Perhaps God got bored, or you can't understand his reasons. Just saying


Moegreche's argument would still apply. This would still necessitate God lacking something.
Outstanding
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Outstanding
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Peasant

God is real.

ThinkReasonAction
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ThinkReasonAction
8 posts
Nomad

Hello MRWalker82

So long as that belief is entirely private, absolutely. When we begin to use unproven and unfalsifiable opinions as a basis and/or justification for law, education, foreign and domestic policy, and allow this multi-billion dollar industry tax exemption then I say we have crossed the boundary.


I shall have to play Devils Advocate (please excuse the use of a Mythical or Frighteningly Real person depending on your belief).
I wish to put forward an argument that may or may not ring true with you......

I believe the unproven and at the same time unfalsifiable, has been used as a justification for law, education, foreign and domestic policy since governance of any kind began.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

God is real.


And your reasoning for this spam is?

I believe the unproven and at the same time unfalsifiable, has been used as a justification for law, education, foreign and domestic policy since governance of any kind began.


How does that justify it's use?
Moegreche
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Moegreche
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Duke

I believe the unproven and at the same time unfalsifiable, has been used as a justification for law, education, foreign and domestic policy since governance of any kind began.


We can grant this completely and even grant this it's perfectly acceptable to do this. But the unsubstantiated claims made in politics and law and those made in religion have a very big difference.
The claims made, say, in law don't ostensibly refer to any sort of being. There are no ontological commitments when talking about law or government. We don't even need the claim that some higher order of morality or justice actually exists - these are simply rules and subsequent punishments that members of society take on when they enter that society.
Now of course the analogy falls flat because there have been plenty of laws that we have "falsified". We no longer treat certain people as property, for example. We don't stone people to death in most countries because we consider that type of punishment to be incorrect.
But leaving that point aside, the clear necessity for the existence of certain being within the scope of religion cannot be denied. Politics can operate in an ontological vacuum - religion cannot.
JohnsBiggestFan
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JohnsBiggestFan
97 posts
Nomad

The real question is Does religion exist?

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

The real question is Does religion exist?


Is there a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs? Yes, that exists.
JohnsBiggestFan
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JohnsBiggestFan
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Nomad

And thank you for answering.
I said this mainly because if religion exists then to a singe person a god or no god exists. It is all based on beliefs

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

I said this mainly because if religion exists then to a singe person a god or no god exists. It is all based on beliefs


Just because you believe something it doesn't make it real, if that's what your getting at.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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Shepherd

I believe the unproven and at the same time unfalsifiable, has been used as a justification for law, education, foreign and domestic policy since governance of any kind began.


I completely agree that it has. And I think it's a bunch of bull. My primary issue, however, is when personal opinion becomes justification for discrimination. We had personal opinion that black people were a lesser race, and thus discriminated against and grossly mistreated them. We also had personal opinion that the handicapped were a lesser class of citizen and we discriminated against them. However these were not based on religion, and as such society was able to change people's minds about these groups.

Now we have the religious folk telling us that we cannot have abortions, cannot perform stem cell and other scientific research. We have religious folks telling certain groups that they cannot be married, which is a LEGAL arrangement, simply because their sexual preference is at odds with certain religious dogmas. This is my problem with religion as a driving force in society.

If these opinions were not based on a doctrine which one is brainwashed into believing, and if these opinions were not forced upon billions of people world wide by religious leaders I would contend that such discrimination would be drastically lessened and we would be able to take further steps toward a truly tolerant and diverse society.

Now of course the analogy falls flat because there have been plenty of laws that we have "falsified". We no longer treat certain people as property, for example. We don't stone people to death in most countries because we consider that type of punishment to be incorrect.


And that is the point I'm arguing for. These laws were falsified because a more tolerant and understanding social morality won out over primitive and immoral beliefs. I don't think this would have been successful if these beliefs had been tied to a religious doctrine, and we even see these same immoral acts propagated today in religious circles.

We have religious groups which still stone people to death, who still engage in slavery, and who allow physical abuse of who they deem to be the 'lesser' members of society. While this is not a uniquely religious phenomenon, it is more prevalent within devout religious circles, and as a consequence it is vastly more difficult to remove from these circles.

Religious belief requires one to reject that which at odds with their dogma, and as such we must lead people away from that dogma before we can begin to help them move toward a more enlightened and tolerant way of living. This is a nearly insurmountable task, and why I am so adamant about keeping religious influence out of society and especially government.

But leaving that point aside, the clear necessity for the existence of certain being within the scope of religion cannot be denied. Politics can operate in an ontological vacuum - religion cannot.


Actually there are several religions who are also atheistic. Take, for example, Buddhism. The overwhelming majority of Buddhists have no governing deity and do not claim Buddha as a divine figure, simply as an enlightened man. Furthermore, I find it rather interesting that Buddhism is also widely regarded as one of the kindest and most moralistic religions. How odd that the most famous atheist religion is also considered a benchmark for social equality and human rights.
Outstanding
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Outstanding
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Peasant

Why do people write so much about this? We don't even really need to debate. Let everyone do what they're going to do.

slipsoccer
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slipsoccer
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Peasant

Why do people write so much about this? We don't even really need to debate. Let everyone do what they're going to do.

Well people obviously are doing what they want and that's debating.

Well for me God exists in my relegious beliefs and I dont care what anyone has to say about that. But science has yet failed to give any real prove that there was a God walking in this earth. Prove me wrong anyone?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

Well for me God exists in my relegious beliefs and I dont care what anyone has to say about that.


So basically you really don't care if it's true or not then?

But science has yet failed to give any real prove that there was a God walking in this earth. Prove me wrong anyone?


If something doesn't exist it isn't going to leave any proof behind. So if there is no proof it's reasonable to assume it doesn't exist. Especially when claims of the physical interactions that thing supposedly has had turned out to have other explanations.
slipsoccer
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slipsoccer
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Peasant

So basically you really don't care if it's true or not then?

Why would I care if its not true? I grew up believing there is a God and ill die like that.

If something doesn't exist it isn't going to leave any proof behind. So if there is no proof it's reasonable to assume it doesn't exist

Actually there has been proof of somewhat the bible having some fact into it. Scientist have found "The Tomb of Jesus" from where the bible located it at but never really found the body.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Why would I care if its not true? I grew up believing there is a God and ill die like that.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/StarTrekFacePalm.gif

If it's not true then you've been following a falsehood.

If you don't care about truth then why do you care about proof?


Actually there has been proof of somewhat the bible having some fact into it. Scientist have found "The Tomb of Jesus" from where the bible located it at but never really found the body.


I don't recall the Bible giving the details as to where this tomb was. Further more an empty tomb isn't proof that God exists. All they have is an empty tomb.

It would seem an empty tomb isn't the only Jesus tomb found either.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1593893,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/8587838.stm

But hey you don't care about truth so I guess I'm wasting my time.
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